Getting my employer to take me seriously...

[Lisa Lane-Collins]

Re: Getting my employer to take me seriously...

If you are able to say that you have a better opportunity on a certain night it might show them that you have more worth.
A polite, I have a chance to do such and such. I will not be able to make it on this one night. etc.

I've been outsourcing my front bar gig so I can take better jobs for years but doing it now formally, through the boss, so she knows, is actually a really good idea. My dad reckoned I should wait a couple of months and ask for her to write me a resume too, something about it prompting her to actually assess what my recommendable attributes are.

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Getting my employer to take me seriously...

I've been outsourcing my front bar gig so I can take better jobs for years but doing it now formally, through the boss, so she knows, is actually a really good idea. My dad reckoned I should wait a couple of months and ask for her to write me a resume too, something about it prompting her to actually assess what my recommendable attributes are.

Do you mean asking for a "reference"? A resume or CV is something that you would write.

You asking your current employer for a reference is a little unusual, as that is usually used by other employers to help evaluate you as a possible hire. You can ask her what kind of reference she would give you, while that is a loaded question telegraphing your intentions. Some employers may consider it disloyal if they find out you are shopping other employment. If they consider you replaceable, they may push you out the door sooner than you want on their terms instead of yours.

I can't guess from a distance what your particular dynamic is with your employer.

JR

 

[Lisa Lane-Collins]

Re: Getting my employer to take me seriously...

HAHA oops, yeah, meant reference. Shouldn't be allowed near a keyboard when I'm tired.

I'm inclined to think I am a small and insignificant/very replaceable part of a larger picture, prepared to lose the gig for rocking the boat.

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Getting my employer to take me seriously...

One speech I used to give to my employees was to explain what their job really was about..... it was to make my job easier and less stressful, just like my job was to worry about what my boss worries about.

Perhaps look at it from their perspective. How could you make their life less stressful, other than working for free?

Money is how we keep score but the real transaction in any job, is taking care of our employer's needs and wants. Some employers are not very rational and can't be easily satisfied but most will reward employees who have their back.

While that is focussed purely on the personal dynamic, economically you need to be creating value commensurate to what you are paid, or the relationship doesn't make sense. Employees often think pay is about what they need, but it is about what they contribute to the organization. If you want the organization to pay you more, you need to create more value for them, or make them aware you already are if they don't see it.


JR

 

[Dick Rees]

Re: Getting my employer to take me seriously...

One speech I used to give to my employees was to explain what their job really was about..... it was to make my job easier and less stressful, just like my job was to worry about what my boss worries about.

Perhaps look at it from their perspective. How could you make their life less stressful, other than working for free?

Money is how we keep score but the real transaction in any job, is taking care of our employer's needs and wants. Some employers are not very rational and can't be easily satisfied but most will reward employees who have their back.

While that is focussed purely on the personal dynamic, economically you need to be creating value commensurate to what you are paid, or the relationship doesn't make sense. Employees often think pay is about what they need, but it is about what they contribute to the organization. If you want the organization to pay you more, you need to create more value for them, or make them aware you already are if they don't see it.


JR

Not a big enough LIKE BUTTON for this post. This is PURE GOLD and should be sticky-fied.

Well done, sir.

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Getting my employer to take me seriously...

Not a big enough LIKE BUTTON for this post. This is PURE GOLD and should be sticky-fied.

Well done, sir.

They like me... they really like me.. (cue Sally Field awards show video clip... )

I have more... here's an anecdote about work dress. I had one younger employee who was showing up for work with shoes that were barely taped together and pants that were more holy than the new pope. I pulled him into my office and asked him what was going on. He then admitted that he wanted a raise and thought he could appeal to my sympathy by looking like he "needed" the money. I then gave him speech #27 about dressing for success (you need to look successful before you become successful), and speech #7 about to get more pay, visibly create more value for your employer.

He took the advice and stepped up, putting in extra effort to learn a new PCB layout system, and help me do my job. He got his raise. I am pleased to report that he went on to become an executive at several large companies. He was kind of pigeon-holed an that first company, but did very well inside other organizations that never experienced his holy pants, bum imitation.

JR

PS: Inside a large organization the "visibly" create value is important. I used to force all my employees to participate in the company cost savings suggestion program. These are generally very unpopular with engineering professionals who consider cost savings their day job. But company wide cost savings programs are near and dear to upper management because it does impact the bottom line. Having my employees on record as active participants made it easier for me to win raises for them at review time. Some of this is corporate politics and inside baseball, but it is what it is.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: Getting my employer to take me seriously...

Not a big enough LIKE BUTTON for this post. This is PURE GOLD and should be sticky-fied.

Well done, sir.

Agreed, it is soooo right (and yet so wrong from a manager's point of view). Unfortunately, in any job, keeping your boss happy comes before anything else, it doesn't matter if you are good, produce brilliant results and are the best and most valuable employee the organisation has ever had if your boss isn't happy with you.

As a manager, I used to take the view that my most important job was to be a facilitator for my team, to make sure they had what they needed to enable them to do the best job possible. Not being a manager anymore, mostly due to my focus on results and team efficiency rather than making my boss happy, I still believe that a managers focus should be on facilitating his team, but in real life you have to make your boss want you.

 

[Lisa Lane-Collins]

Re: Getting my employer to take me seriously...

If you want the organization to pay you more, you need to create more value for them, or make them aware you already are if they don't see it.

Well here's a good and proper challenge. I can make a wicked mix out of a lousy PA and the bands happy but if there's no one in the bar drinking it's a bit of a moot point.

The father of the sisters actually said to me one time that I needed to be inviting my friends to the pub to watch the bands (they won't even come and watch my Own band so fat chance of that). I resented the double standard as the venue tech certainly does not have to do that but it definitely ties in with this concept.

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Getting my employer to take me seriously...

Agreed, it is soooo right (and yet so wrong from a manager's point of view). Unfortunately, in any job, keeping your boss happy comes before anything else, it doesn't matter if you are good, produce brilliant results and are the best and most valuable employee the organisation has ever had if your boss isn't happy with you.

As a manager, I used to take the view that my most important job was to be a facilitator for my team, to make sure they had what they needed to enable them to do the best job possible. Not being a manager anymore, mostly due to my focus on results and team efficiency rather than making my boss happy, I still believe that a managers focus should be on facilitating his team, but in real life you have to make your boss want you.

I didn't always play nice with others and I was not good at the more Machiavellian aspects of corporate politics. The amount of back stabbing and trying to make yourself look better by making others look bad is remarkable. I reported to one puke, who would routinely have his underlings deliver bad news to his boss, while he was always large and in charge delivering the good news. Blind copy emails were invented by some back stabbing puke to make people look bad to their bosses. I had the bad habit of telling the guy whose name was on the buildings bad news, because I knew that if I was boss I would want to know about things that can hurt my business. Not the best career strategy tho....

Managing a team is a two way street and yes, part of that job is getting them resources (often a direct tug of war with other similar level managers fighting over finite resources). When I managed an engineering group that was more linear than a later gig managing the product managers. Then I often had to run interference with other high level company executives that were not properly supportive. Product management was not a well understood gig requiring support from the entire company, but without the authority to demand it. .

This could fill a book and I was far from expert at it. I certainly did not have the stomach to be an effective political player.

----
@ Lisa_ If they need more meat in the seats, and see you as possibly part of the solution, that could be an opportunity to create value for them, or not. If you bring them incremental business, and they know it is because of your direct effort, it seems like that would make a positive impression and perhaps be rewarded. Again it's about what they want/need. Make them happy and they will be more motivated to keep you happy.

JR

 

[Jack Arnott]

Re: Getting my employer to take me seriously...

The father of the sisters actually said to me one time that I needed to be inviting my friends to the pub to watch the bands.

1) Family business' can be weird places.
2) Not necessarily the case here, but bar owners are known for being compulsive, and narcissistic.
3) This seems misogynistic to me.
4) If someone said this to me, my first thought would be, "would you like me to just cash my check in the bar and spend all my money here?"
I can be quite good at biting my tongue, but sometimes think I must have too much money to even think these things.

When John says, "create more value for them", I take away that you should be doing a wonderful job, and creating an atmosphere where people want to hang out and have a good time. Some of this might be how you interact with the bands. (Some might be how you dress.) If you are jaded like me, and the band is going to sound like the band is going to sound, then I might not be the best person for the job. But if its young idealistic me, and I take the time to try and get them to understand stage volume, and dynamics, and presentation. Or by being optimistic and upbeat, and creating a fun place to play, even if you are the only person in the room. This translates to the band having fun, and when someone comes in, picking up on that and staying. (OK, I am not totally jaded. I do have these conversations all the time, but I certainly pick my spots , and have them with people I know are going to be more receptive to my input.)

I do have musicians specifically tell me they are glad my company is doing the sound, because they always sell more product than if xyz is doing it.
That is "creating more value for them".

If my employer thinks of me as having a lot of sycophant friends on facebook (my inner cynic also adds *female* in your case) who are willing to spend their cash at my place of work, I think they have unrealistic expectations.