GLD 80 Question regarding DCA or Group

[Dan Easton]

I run the Audio Visual team at my Church and in February we are making the upgrade from A A+H Analogue desk to the GLD80. I have been using the GLD editor software to design how I want the desk to run as we tend to run a fairly complex setup and ideally this needs to be replicated on the GLD 80, but just need some advice around Groups and DCA.


On our current Analogue desk we are running 4 submixes (Vocals, Instruments, Drums and Speech) into the main mix. When you mute the submix sound is still channeled to Aux sends for foldback but kills signal to FOH. on the GLD80 this is what we want to replicate.


Looking at the manual and other forum posts I am confused as to whether i need to do this via a DCA or Group as some posts tell me that using a DCA and then muting the channel also kills the sound source to the Aux Mixes. is this correct, or can you reprogramme a DCA so it don't affect Pre fade groups?


The reason I went down the DCA group is because we need to use the individual DCA's to feed into a mini desk which powers our MP3 recording suite and DVD recording. I have created a matrix to take a feed into this mini desk.


Hope this makes sense and look forward to your responses.


Dan

 

[Brent Handy]

Re: GLD 80 Question regarding DCA or Group

I run the Audio Visual team at my Church and in February we are making the upgrade from A A+H Analogue desk to the GLD80. I have been using the GLD editor software to design how I want the desk to run as we tend to run a fairly complex setup and ideally this needs to be replicated on the GLD 80, but just need some advice around Groups and DCA.


On our current Analogue desk we are running 4 submixes (Vocals, Instruments, Drums and Speech) into the main mix. When you mute the submix sound is still channeled to Aux sends for foldback but kills signal to FOH. on the GLD80 this is what we want to replicate.


Looking at the manual and other forum posts I am confused as to whether i need to do this via a DCA or Group as some posts tell me that using a DCA and then muting the channel also kills the sound source to the Aux Mixes. is this correct, or can you reprogramme a DCA so it don't affect Pre fade groups?


The reason I went down the DCA group is because we need to use the individual DCA's to feed into a mini desk which powers our MP3 recording suite and DVD recording. I have created a matrix to take a feed into this mini desk.


Hope this makes sense and look forward to your responses.


Dan

DCAs are not sub groups with dedicated outputs. They just allow you to control a group of inputs. If you want to record, get the Dante card. Connect your Dante card to the computer via CAT5. You will be able to send whatever you want to the computer that way, without the FOH mix affecting what you record. It sounds like you need to be immersed in the form and function of the GLD. You are thinking analog. Where are you located?

 

[Jeff Carter]

Re: GLD 80 Question regarding DCA or Group

I run the Audio Visual team at my Church and in February we are making the upgrade from A A+H Analogue desk to the GLD80. I have been using the GLD editor software to design how I want the desk to run as we tend to run a fairly complex setup and ideally this needs to be replicated on the GLD 80, but just need some advice around Groups and DCA.

The Editor software is a great way to get your head around the console UI since it's very similar. My church has had a GLD-80 since September 2012 and we're quite happy with it--though if you're close to maxing out the input and bus counts of the desk I'd have to recommend that you go with a GLD-112 for the extra fader bank.

On our current Analogue desk we are running 4 submixes (Vocals, Instruments, Drums and Speech) into the main mix. When you mute the submix sound is still channeled to Aux sends for foldback but kills signal to FOH. on the GLD80 this is what we want to replicate.

Looking at the manual and other forum posts I am confused as to whether i need to do this via a DCA or Group as some posts tell me that using a DCA and then muting the channel also kills the sound source to the Aux Mixes. is this correct, or can you reprogramme a DCA so it don't affect Pre fade groups?

To replicate that exact behaviour on a GLD you'd have to use groups. Muting a DCA definitely kills the assigned inputs everywhere (I unintentionally confirmed this by muting the drum DCA in a rehearsal, causing frantic waving in my direction from the drummer, who was using in-ears fed from a pre-fade aux).

That said... 99% of the time, when I mute a channel (with the channel mute or via DCA) I want it muted everywhere (FOH and foldback)--what's the situation where you need to have inputs in foldback but not FOH?

The reason I went down the DCA group is because we need to use the individual DCA's to feed into a mini desk which powers our MP3 recording suite and DVD recording. I have created a matrix to take a feed into this mini desk.

Hope this makes sense and look forward to your responses.

Dan

To be clear--if you're talking about summing a bunch of inputs together into one mix, that's not a DCA--it's an aux, group, matrix, or main. DCA is only a way to control post-fade levels or mutes of a bunch of channels simultaneously.

Could you give a little more detail about your recording process? As I understand it, you're currently using the subgroups as stem mixes (vox, inst, drums, speech) which get mixed down to a final recording with the mini desk--is that correct? Any direct outs from the console? Is there a second operator for this submix? How many tracks get recorded?

 

[Rob Timmerman]

Re: GLD 80 Question regarding DCA or Group

That said... 99% of the time, when I mute a channel (with the channel mute or via DCA) I want it muted everywhere (FOH and foldback)--what's the situation where you need to have inputs in foldback but not FOH?

Two examples that come immediately to mind are record/remote feeds and IEMs. That said, since this type of mute behavior is pretty common, I'll often unassign channels that are only used for record feeds from the L/R bus and not worry about the mutes.

 

[Brent Handy]

Re: GLD 80 Question regarding DCA or Group

Somebody recommended the GLD112, and said that they were maxing out their GLD80. The OP may not understand that getting the 112 DOES NOT increase system channel count, it only adds 8 more control surface faders, pots, etc. I too find the 80 a bit small and inconvenient and only sell the 112, when possible.

 

[Jeff Carter]

Re: GLD 80 Question regarding DCA or Group

Somebody recommended the GLD112, and said that they were maxing out their GLD80. The OP may not understand that getting the 112 DOES NOT increase system channel count, it only adds 8 more control surface faders, pots, etc. I too find the 80 a bit small and inconvenient and only sell the 112, when possible.

Thanks for clearing that up, Brent.

In our case we're probably right on the borderline of needing a 112 (which wasn't available when we bought our 80.)

Just as an example of how quickly those fader slots can get tied up... we're set up with with 32 + 2 inputs and our "normal" setup runs mains (LR+Msum) plus 8 mono auxes, 4 groups and 2 matrix (that's 34 + 17 = 51 fader slots for those playing along at home). Then there's whatever DCAs and FX we want to use (for me, usually 6 DCAs, 6 FX bus, 6 FX return... another 18 fader slots) so I'm usually close to 70 unique fader assignments. Yes, I still have empty slots but I wouldn't really be able to add much more and keep everything nicely organized.

 

[Jeff Hague]

Re: GLD 80 Question regarding DCA or Group

I run the Audio Visual team at my Church and in February we are making the upgrade from A A+H Analogue desk to the GLD80. I have been using the GLD editor software to design how I want the desk to run as we tend to run a fairly complex setup and ideally this needs to be replicated on the GLD 80, but just need some advice around Groups and DCA.


On our current Analogue desk we are running 4 submixes (Vocals, Instruments, Drums and Speech) into the main mix. When you mute the submix sound is still channeled to Aux sends for foldback but kills signal to FOH. on the GLD80 this is what we want to replicate.


Looking at the manual and other forum posts I am confused as to whether i need to do this via a DCA or Group as some posts tell me that using a DCA and then muting the channel also kills the sound source to the Aux Mixes. is this correct, or can you reprogramme a DCA so it don't affect Pre fade groups?


The reason I went down the DCA group is because we need to use the individual DCA's to feed into a mini desk which powers our MP3 recording suite and DVD recording. I have created a matrix to take a feed into this mini desk.


Hope this makes sense and look forward to your responses.


Dan

To mimic the way your current setup works, you want to use groups, not DCAs. On the GLD I think you would do that using mix busses as groups but I am not positive of that - that is how you do it on a Soundcraft Si.

There are distinct differences between groups and DCAs but many people get confused because the core function is the same - controlling the level of multiple channels with a single fader.

With a group, you do not assign individual channels to the main mix. Instead they feed a buss mix that then feeds the main mix. With a group, audio passes through the buss so you can use a physical output on the board to feed a recorder just for that group and you can insert effects across the entire group. If the channels assigned to the group are "stereo", you need 2 groups (panned hard L & R) to keep the stereo image. Muting the group does not mute the channels feeding it so monitor mixes and effects sends are unaffected.

With a DCA, you are simply controlling the voltage that the channel faders assigned to the DCA work off of - it is not a bus and no audio "passes through" it. The channels still feed the main L&R outputs directly. You cannot assign an output for recording or insert effects but you can use just a single DCA with "stereo" channels. Since the DCA affects the individual channel faders directly, muting a DCA mutes the channels too so all output regardless of where its routed is muted.

 

[Rob Spence]

Re: GLD 80 Question regarding DCA or Group

I have a GLD80. I use DCAs for mute groups and for single fader control of a group of inputs. I use a stereo group for the band so I can mute it in the house with a single soft key but still have the monitors live for setting levels etc. having the band group muted also let's me have a group for playback and have a single soft key to mute that too.

I use Dante for recording. I record direct outs for all the band inputs and also a stereo matrix fed from the mains so I have all the tracks and a two track mix.


Sent from my iPad HD

 

[Chris Nixon]

Re: GLD 80 Question regarding DCA or Group

http://churchtecharts.org/home/2008/9/18/groups-vcas-and-dcas.html

http://churchtecharts.org/home/2008/9/19/groups-vcas-and-dcas-part-two.html

Chris

 

[Tim Padrick]

Re: GLD 80 Question regarding DCA or Group

I would send all channel direct outs to a computer running Reaper, and set your CD/MP3 mix up on that. This will simplify the console's setup, and - if time permits - allow you to go back and remix for CD/MP3 if you don't like what you got the first time.

 

[Rob Spence]

Re: GLD 80 Question regarding DCA or Group

I would send all channel direct outs to a computer running Reaper, and set your CD/MP3 mix up on that. This will simplify the console's setup, and - if time permits - allow you to go back and remix for CD/MP3 if you don't like what you got the first time.

I should have added that the Dante connection goes to a MacBook Pro and Reaper.


Sent from my iPad HD