Guitar Center is Doomed

Re: Guitar Center is Doomed

From what the local guy at GC says, they are profitable but not profitable enough to pay off the big Bain loan.
So the biggest creditor will take over and GC will continue on under new owner. No real change except who owns the paper.
 
Re: Guitar Center is Doomed

From what the local guy at GC says, they are profitable but not profitable enough to pay off the big Bain loan.
So the biggest creditor will take over and GC will continue on under new owner. No real change except who owns the paper.

They aren't really paying for inventory. The manufacturers are fronting the inventory. If they had to buy their inventory and pay rent, labor, utilities, insurance, etc, they would not be profitable. The manufacturers are willing to place inventory because the alternative is to ship and not get paid. This way they can get their goods back if they want to pull out.
 
Re: Guitar Center is Doomed

They aren't really paying for inventory. The manufacturers are fronting the inventory. If they had to buy their inventory and pay rent, labor, utilities, insurance, etc, they would not be profitable. The manufacturers are willing to place inventory because the alternative is to ship and not get paid. This way they can get their goods back if they want to pull out.

Really? I expect most manufacturers to "sell" the inventory to the merchant. Selling on consignment is a fool's game. The merchant would have to be very fast on their feet to turn the inventory quicker than the bills come due. Possible perhaps for some isolated hot potato products, but across the board the merchant inventory doesn't turn that fast (we used to try to teach dealers about understanding and managing their inventory turns ratio at seminars). When merchants stop paying the vendors, the vendors stop shipping new goods, so they stop getting the hot potato products that draw traffic into the stores.

** Some larger manufacturers have a lending/credit arm where a dealer can floor plan or borrow against their inventory to pay the manufacturer. While this may look like shuffling money between different manufacturer pockets, the finance arm is a separate unit that borrows and lends money to make additional profit from the loan interest. Again it is bad business to lend money to an unprofitable retailer. Note: during the credit collapse in 2007/2008 the massive size of the GE corporation's finance division was revealed. As the old saying goes when the tide goes out you can see who isn't wearing a bathing suit. :-)

The alternative to shipping gear on consignment is not building it if you don't have a home for it, or deeply discounting it, to move it. If you don't get paid, you can't buy parts to build more. Manufacturing is a relatively narrow profit margin business. Manufacturing can't afford to bankroll dealers, especially dealers who might go out of business.

JR

**Note: roughly equivalent to dealer's floor plan financing inventory, manufacturers with slow paying dealers (they can be very slow) who are hurting for cash, may turn to "factors" as a last resort. These factors will buy the outstanding receivables from the manufacturer, discounted of course. This is usually a sign of desperation and hard times for the manufacturer and further erodes their narrow profit margin.
 
Re: Guitar Center is Doomed

Really? I expect most manufacturers to "sell" the inventory to the merchant. Selling on consignment is a fool's game.

While it's a very different game, this is how I understand Walmart's business model. If a product doesn't sell fast enough they discontinue the sku and send the remaining product back to the manufacturer. And since they don't pay for the inventory until it sells, they don't have to wait for a credit from the manufacturer. Of course, I'm prepared to be told I'm wrong on this point.
 
Re: Guitar Center is Doomed

While it's a very different game, this is how I understand Walmart's business model. If a product doesn't sell fast enough they discontinue the sku and send the remaining product back to the manufacturer. And since they don't pay for the inventory until it sells, they don't have to wait for a credit from the manufacturer. Of course, I'm prepared to be told I'm wrong on this point.

I sold my Walmart stock a while ago, but they are very sharp pencil managers. Walmart probably has thousands of different vendors, and likely different deals with the different vendors depending on relative strength.

As I mentioned Walmart probably closely monitors their inventory turns ratio, and does not tolerate slow/non moving inventory. Wether a manufacturer is willing to buy back inventory depends on the quid pro quo. I can imagine Proctor and Gamble might buy back some slow selling toothpaste so they can sell more razor blades. I can also image some new company accepting such an unfavorable deal just to get their foot in the door and win some precious shelf space. You can't sell truckloads until you get your product in the store. Walmart probably has a parade of hungry vendors willing to take such a deal.

I do not know for a fact what contractual arrangements Walmart has with their vendors but expect them to vary.

An interesting dynamic for Walmart is how some of these brand name commodity type products they sell are now being warehoused by Amazon or whatever big click merchant, for faster order fulfillment. Even Walmart is being challenged by the bricks-to-clicks evolution.

If Amazon can bundle several small purchases together to reduce shipping cost, and offer more brand name spoo, they could erode even Walmart's business model.

Walmart also has an opportunity to leverage their store stocking distribution infrastructure to fulfill web sales to customers in smaller stores/markets, to make more SKUs available that are not stocked and on the shelves in small market stores. For many small items, shipping can cost more than the item, so this will become another battlefield or pressure point in the bricks vs clicks conflict.

Interesting times.

About the only company I know of that enjoyed being paid for finished goods before paying for manufacturing them was the old Dell computer business model. They would accept pre-paid web orders and then build the computers to order in their closely aligned manufacturing centers. This was very good for Dell for a long time, as growth was literally fully funded internally by sales, but even the best plan eventually runs it's course.

JR

PS: An interesting tidbit about time value of money, I saw a news report about regulators investigating the float that banks build into money transfers. While checks now clear electronically and very quickly, the banks are still slow to release their grip on the actual cash.
 
Re: Guitar Center is Doomed

Really? I expect most manufacturers to "sell" the inventory to the merchant.

** Some larger manufacturers have a lending/credit arm where a dealer can floor plan or borrow against their inventory to pay the manufacturer.

John is correct. Suppliers sell products to GC and GC typically has a line of credit that they borrow against in order to place their orders. The problem for GC now is that they are a huge credit risk for suppliers. Suppliers look at GC's financial position and can't trust that they will be able to pay down their credit. GC can't prepay so Suppliers are not supplying. Customers will see a decrease in new inventory in the stores.
 
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Re: Guitar Center is Doomed

I have a close friend who works at thomann upper management (europe's biggest retailer) and he said that he knows for sure that manufactrurers are pulling out at guitar center and also reducing credit line... they are all worried not to get paid...
if this happens then this is the end for GC and many manufacturers like fender and gibson who have big financial problem too and are deep in GC. we might see a large collapse of manufacturers who depend on GC...

Also here in europe music stores are disappearing everywhere and e-commerce is growing... a year ago the largest british music chain digital village went bankrupted... around 15 stores or more closed...
 
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Re: Guitar Center is Doomed

I have a close friend who works at thomann upper management (europe's biggest retailer) and he said that he knows for sure that manufactrurers are pulling out at guitar center and also reducing credit line... they are all worried not to get paid...
if this happens then this is the end for GC and many manufacturers like fender and gibson who have big financial problem too and are deep in GC. we might see a large collapse of manufacturers who depend on GC...

Also here in europe music stores are disappearing everywhere and e-commerce is growing... a year ago the largest british music chain digital village went bankrupted... around 15 stores or more closed...

If A is true that doesn't mean the B and C are true.

None of those brands mentioned including GC are new or without value. Of course anyone can be mismanaged out of business. Or not.

I suspect they will re-arrange the deck chairs on the poop deck and motor on...

JR
 
Re: Guitar Center is Doomed

I have a close friend who works at thomann upper management (europe's biggest retailer) and he said that he knows for sure that manufactrurers are pulling out at guitar center and also reducing credit line... they are all worried not to get paid...
if this happens then this is the end for GC and many manufacturers like fender and gibson who have big financial problem too and are deep in GC. we might see a large collapse of manufacturers who depend on GC...

Also here in europe music stores are disappearing everywhere and e-commerce is growing... a year ago the largest british music chain digital village went bankrupted... around 15 stores or more closed...

Digital Village's bankruptcy all looks a little dodgy to me it seems like it was just a way that music store Germany could aquire them whilst writing off a load of debt at the same time. In all fairness DV did not seem ever to be profitable. There was a thread on sound on sound discussing this.
 
Re: Guitar Center is Doomed

As I understand it, the company called "DV247" went out of business in the UK and then a short time later another company called "DV247" was started in Germany, with exactly the same website as the original. They advertise "Free UK Delivery" too which helps make it look like they're actually based in the UK, but orders now come through UPS from Germany.

They used to be able to do next day delivery with DPD, and you'd get a text with a 30 minute delivery window, which was accurate. Now with UPS they don't even dispatch the order until a couple of days after you place it. Prices are still very good though...

I like Thomann because they stock everything you'd expect, but also all the small things you don't think about that can be hard to get hold of. Replacement blue ring for a Beta 58? Yes. Every individual part for any K&M mic stand? Yes... and if you wanted to you could buy a CL5 in the same order.

Chris
 
Re: Guitar Center is Doomed

I just heard that it's more bad news for GC. Rumors are flying that major suppliers (Yamaha, QSC, Shure, etc) are bailing and put them on credit hold. Word is out that Ares will declare Chapter 11 on GC as soon as next month.

Entire Industry is shaky. Fender fired 100+ people and Loud (Mackie, EAW etc) has sacked their complete management team and is heading for bankruptcy.
 
Re: Guitar Center is Doomed

I just heard that it's more bad news for GC. Rumors are flying that major suppliers (Yamaha, QSC, Shure, etc) are bailing and put them on credit hold. Word is out that Ares will declare Chapter 11 on GC as soon as next month.

Entire Industry is shaky. Fender fired 100+ people and Loud (Mackie, EAW etc) has sacked their complete management team and is heading for bankruptcy.

Rumors aren't worth squat.

I would rather hear the latest elk hunting tips.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
 
Re: Guitar Center is Doomed

I was "holiday help" at a GC. After they let me go it appeared they keep letting more and more go and hiring all the wrong people. Not that the people let go were the correct people, but still. I thought it would be a good experience working there. False. But I could rant for hours..
 
Re: Guitar Center is Doomed

Guitar Center's real problem: their customers are broke

A friend sent me this link and I repost it only because I find it amusing... Actually kind of sad.. Not unlike the all the businesses blaming the weather.

JR

Salient points from a Wall Street Journal article linked from ericgarland.co:
Guitar Center has about $1.6 billion in debt, much of it stemming from Bain’s $2.1 billion leveraged buyout of the company in 2007. But the 253-store U.S. chain faces competition from e-commerce, and debt payments are eating into its cash flow, the people said.
 
Re: Guitar Center is Doomed

"... Nobody got no money." Hell of a quote.
And the unemployment numbers are down.
But wait - what about all those who fell out of the count because they're considered no longer looking for work?

The article paints a bleak picture, indeed - and not just for Guitar Center.

One does have to wonder whether the economic model of constant growth is realistic anymore. The alternative?
 
Re: Guitar Center is Doomed

Salient points from a Wall Street Journal article linked from ericgarland.co:

To get serious for a moment... The unnaturally low interbank interest rate since 2007/8 financial meltdown has created many such distortions. Cheap/easy borrowing at least for big dogs, has lead to many such increases in leverage. Another phenomenon I've seen is large public companies buying their own stock to pump up their price-to-earning ratios. We are in a bubblicious easy-money distorted economic environment, and the problem with bubbles is they only become apparent after the fact. Even to me. :-(

The central bankers haven't even started raising interest rates off the bottom yet. They have just slowed down on how much of our own debt they are buying themselves to prop up sovereign debt prices (and consequently all hard assets like stocks, real estate, commodities, etc). This gradual reduction in quantitative easing has given the US economy and stock market the sniffles, while the rest of the world is catching cold. The EU is worrying about deflation (considering negative interest rates), and even China has stopped strengthening their yuan.

US GDP growth is looking like 2.5% so not as bad as feared, but not strong enough to lift the weaker parts of the economy and support all the extra spending we have committed to, without deep cuts elsewhere.

Putin has threatened replacing the dollar with the Ruble, but Russia with only a $2T economy does not have the economic muscle to upset the US with 8x their size, and the the EU zone also at several times the size of Russia. Lets not forget that they lost the cold war due to economic force not military force. While apparently there is still a place for both in the modern world.

Good luck to us.

JR
 
Re: Guitar Center is Doomed

"... Nobody got no money." Hell of a quote.
And the unemployment numbers are down.
But wait - what about all those who fell out of the count because they're considered no longer looking for work?

The article paints a bleak picture, indeed - and not just for Guitar Center.

One does have to wonder whether the economic model of constant growth is realistic anymore. The alternative?
As I just posted we are actually growing GDP at 2+% but could use more. That article sounds a little hyperbolic, to blame the government for GCs woes. The founders have cashed out and left the building already. I posted it for entertainment value not as a serious economic statement.

We quickly get into some pretty fundamental arguments about economics that have been argued back and forth for decades. I do not personally think we should accept weak economic growth, but likewise I do not expect the government to fix anything. Robust economic growth can only come from the private sector being set free to do what only they can do. There is a place for regulation to prevent the worst excesses of capitalism, but it should not throttle the golden goose that provides us the growing wealth we have enjoyed for centuries.

We have avoided the zero growth malaise that japan has suffered, and have the potential to get our growth rate back on track, but not if we keep doing what we are doing now.

Of course opinions vary...

JR