Headphones - what did Dave get?

Re: Headphones - what did Dave get?

Ron Kimball said:
You shouldn't be EQing anything through the cans :?~:-?~:???: - It's what things sound like through the PA that's important. The headphones are good for soloing channels looking for weird noises and what exactly are they picking up besides what you intended. Also good for a rough listen to the monitor mixes for anything way out of line. For all that isolation is more important to me than fidelity - YMMV :)~:-)~:smile:.
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I disagree.

I've used my headphones to dial up a channel initially for years. If I make it sound a good as possible in decent headphones first, I think I have a better starting point when I bring it up in the system.

I can also tell right off if something is wrong(distortion due to low battery on the guitar pickup for instance), or if the player has dialed up their rig badly.

It's worked for me, YMMV.

Best regards,

John
 
Re: Headphones - what did Dave get?

John Halliburton said:
I disagree. I've used my headphones to dial up a channel initially for years. If I make it sound a good as possible in decent headphones first, I think I have a better starting point when I bring it up in the system. I can also tell right off if something is wrong(distortion due to low battery on the guitar pickup for instance), or if the player has dialed up their rig badly.
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Perhaps I should have said "for final EQing". For what you mentioned super hifi headphones are not needed IMO. I'll certainly try to give each channel a listen when setting the trims (or later if I hear something not quite right in the mains or get boored 8)~8-)~:cool:) and listen for what you listed and perhaps even tweak any gross EQ issues (often with the kick). I do tend to run most inputs flat except for HPF (unless using SM58's or 57's <bleck>) unless something is noticeably wrong. IMO you can't really EQ something to sit well in the mix by EQing it soloed, YMMV :)~:-)~:smile:.
 
Re: Headphones - what did Dave get?

For the record, I never said you can't eq in headphones, whether it be a system or channel. What I said is that you need to be able to hear the source in the headphones (isolation) and that is more important than sound quality in the headphones. It comes down to a matter of understanding how what you hear in the headphones translates to the system. After using a pair for a while your ears become calibrated. That is not nearly as easy if you are fighting against an ever changing background of bleed.
 
Re: Headphones - what did Dave get?

A week ago I just got a pair of Audio Technica ATH-M50 and like them very much. I can compare them with the Denon AH-D2000 which I have had for a year and have become my favorite headphones. The Denons have a flatter response and sound more clear to my ears than any of the other headphones I have used, including Sony MDR7506, Sennheiser HD280, Sennheiser HD600 (very nice but open back and not quite as flat in the highs), Sennheiser HD25-II, Ultrasone HFI680, and AKG K240 MkII. For isolation I prefer the Etymotic Research ER4PT with custom earmolds, although the bass sounds somewhat attenuated on those and being in-ears they are less convenient. After a week of listening to the ATH-M50 on CDs and music I recorded live, I narrowly prefer the Denons for a slightly more musical bass, which Dave Rat found to be very low distortion down to 20 Hz on his oscilloscope. The ATH-M50, which is available for less than half the price I paid for the Denons, is a very close second to my ears. Of course all these comparisons are subjective as perceived by my 61 year old hearing-damaged ears, and I have not yet had a chance to use the ATH-M50s out at a gig, so those are the limitations of my review here. I also would note that the ATH-M50 looks to have a very good build quality, has either coiled or straight cord (I prefer coiled), is foldable, comes with additonal velour ear pads, has much smaller ear cups than the Denons (but still fits my relatively large ears ok), and is a couple dB less sensitive than the Denons. I have stopped taking the Denons to gigs, they are no longer available and I like them so much and don't want them to walk away.
 
Re: Headphones - what did Dave get?

Jay Barracato said:
For the record, I never said you can't eq in headphones, whether it be a system or channel. What I said is that you need to be able to hear the source in the headphones (isolation) and that is more important than sound quality in the headphones. It comes down to a matter of understanding how what you hear in the headphones translates to the system. After using a pair for a while your ears become calibrated. That is not nearly as easy if you are fighting against an ever changing background of bleed.
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I agree with this.

Soloing a channel through the headphones can reveal why you may be using EQ settings that seem "strange". For example I was trying to dial in a kick mic with the channel EQ and it just didn't seem right. Popped in the headphones and the solo'd sound didn't sound anything like what was coming through the mains.

Of course, if your mains are setup right in the first place this wouldn't be as much of an issue.
 
Re: Headphones - what did Dave get?

Being from both the studio world and live I have used headphones quite a bit over the years and the conclusion I came to for live was the Vic Firth isolation headphones. They really translate well for me and I have had no problem making EQ decisions with them if needed. The better quality studio headphones will generally far out perform even the best stacks we have and lack enough isolation to really be effective in most cases. The fidelity of the under $100 Vic Firths closely matches what I am hearing from my better PA systems and is spot on for vocal balance and effects decisions. The best tool for the job is always going to be the one that translates the best, not the one that costs the most or has the best specs.

I have owned and used most of the best headphones out there and the really expensive ones shine in the studio but I really get a kick out of someone using even the HD280's for mixing live and then taking them off and hearing the comparative garbage coming out of the PA.
 
Re: Headphones - what did Dave get?

Mike Brown said:
I have a pair of MDR7506 and they sounded nothing alike. Maybe the hearing protectors is doing something naughty or the pair I heard was bad. They were very midrange heavy.
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The Sony is very midrange light. The Ultras I heard were a nice improvement over the 7506 (which I think are crap).

The Extreme EX29, though they have their own foibles, allow the elements of a mix to be heard much better than the 7506, Senny 280, Shure 840, or Shure 440 (which is the best of that bunch, but still not very good).
 
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