Heavy speakers, to fly or use a tripod?

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Brian O'Shaughnessy

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Mar 11, 2014
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Hello all, been searching a lot and finding some good information but not quite what I need.

Just invested in 2 of these speakers. PK Sound CX215 a 2 way cabinet
CX215.jpg

They're great, and I've just been ground stacking them with the subs (double 18s). Only thing is, I much prefer the look and sound of the subs on the ground, these speakers have fly points but don't have tripod mounts. They weigh 80 lbs. Are there crank stands that would allow me to some how rig these without using truss? I know genie lifts can do off center loads but all those are much larger then I need. Is there a manufacturer that makes smaller crank stands that are similar to genie's design?

Would it be totally out of the question to just put a tripod mount on the bottom of these and then make sure I have a really solid tripod to support it? Is there a good place to get a high quality tripod mount, or a mount that is meant for heavier cabinets?

Thanks for any input!
 
Re: Heavy speakers, to fly or use a tripod?

Brian O'Shaughnessy said:
Are there crank stands that would allow me to some how rig these without using truss? I know genie lifts can do off center loads but all those are much larger then I need. Is there a manufacturer that makes smaller crank stands that are similar to genie's design?

Would it be totally out of the question to just put a tripod mount on the bottom of these and then make sure I have a really solid tripod to support it? Is
Click to expand...
Brian,

Although there are many crank lifts available that are capable of supporting an 80 pound speaker such as the ones from Global truss (I have some, they are a high quality build and have many nice design features lacking in other crank lifts), lifting an 80 pound speaker on to the stand is more difficult than stacking, and as you go higher, you would need a balanced tilter to angle the speaker down. The stand also occupies a lot of floor space, and unless you would use a pair of stands and a truss (now approaching a Genie Supertower in cost) you can't vertically align the tops with the subs.

I'd suggest building some speaker support boxes (which can also double as cord storage) if your subs don't already get the speakers to the height you desire, and ratchet strap the stack together.

Art
 
Re: Heavy speakers, to fly or use a tripod?

Brian O'Shaughnessy said:
Hello all, been searching a lot and finding some good information but not quite what I need.

Just invested in 2 of these speakers. PK Sound CX215 a 2 way cabinet
View attachment 10570

They're great, and I've just been ground stacking them with the subs (double 18s). Only thing is, I much prefer the look and sound of the subs on the ground, these speakers have fly points but don't have tripod mounts. They weigh 80 lbs. Are there crank stands that would allow me to some how rig these without using truss? I know genie lifts can do off center loads but all those are much larger then I need. Is there a manufacturer that makes smaller crank stands that are similar to genie's design?

Would it be totally out of the question to just put a tripod mount on the bottom of these and then make sure I have a really solid tripod to support it? Is there a good place to get a high quality tripod mount, or a mount that is meant for heavier cabinets?

Thanks for any input!
Click to expand...

The peavey vermette lifts made for the
Versarray might work. They're less godawful to move around than genies and can sometimes be found for a reasonable price used.
 
Re: Heavy speakers, to fly or use a tripod?

You could pick up another set of speakers and fly them. Here is some Yorkville EF500p speakers on stands. They come in at 89lbs each. I had a cert. welder make the tops. It is 1 inch thick,solid crank shaft. I had them bent for the proper coverage angle needed. I pulled the stands to 20 degrees off center and they came back with no problems. I also doubled the weight for a test with different angles. With the wide base the global stands have and the weight all pushing down on the center it is VERY hard to get them to move at all. I would not put them up 13 feet but in this picture the bottom of the speaker is about 6 1/2 feet. I've been using this setup for around 9 years with no problems.
Douglas R. Allen
 

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Re: Heavy speakers, to fly or use a tripod?

How about this?
AppliedLineArrayTowerPSW.jpg
 
Re: Heavy speakers, to fly or use a tripod?

Glenn Adams said:
How about this?
AppliedLineArrayTowerPSW.jpg
Click to expand...

Should work real well for those inside gigs.

Not to mention having a lift worth 10 times the cost of speaker makes sense.

Of course you could always use it around the house. Lifting engine blocks out of cars, moving roofing materials to the roof, not having to carry the groceries up the stairs...
 
Re: Heavy speakers, to fly or use a tripod?

Jay Barracato said:
Should work real well for those inside gigs.

Not to mention having a lift worth 10 times the cost of speaker makes sense.

Of course you could always use it around the house. Lifting engine blocks out of cars, moving roofing materials to the roof, not having to carry the groceries up the stairs...
Click to expand...

Quite the footprint and self-weight, too.
 
Re: Heavy speakers, to fly or use a tripod?

Yeah but I have been going around and around for years looking for a solution to the same problem.

Outside I am still with scaffolding and indoors using 10 space shock racks as spacers.

I also paid $500 for a set of balanced tilters for larger SOS rigs.
People seem to ignore the cost of safely aiming in the portable PA world.

I sat and listened and hated the way the mains were hung for the first 6 months I was working in the club. I finally went and figured out what I thought was needed to do it right, called polar focus and the quote for proper rigging with the splay, trim, and tilt I wanted was 3/4 of the value of the speakers. I fixed the splay with some straps and spacers ($14), the trim is OK but not great, and the tilt will never be right.

Point the speakers at the people is an easy enough concept but to do it easily, cost effectively, and safely seems to be a pick 2 of the three situation. Since I am not budging on the safely part all the options I have seen are either not easy or not cost effective.

Even Mike Pyle's very nice totums which would be great indoors are probably $600+ per speaker when the parts are added up.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD
 
Re: Heavy speakers, to fly or use a tripod?

I've used a pair of K&M model 213 stands for a few years with speakers that weigh ~70 lbs. The stands are rated for 110 lbs.

I don't worry about the stands failing structurally, they're pretty strong, but I do worry about tipping. I don't use them at full extension unless they are tied or guyed to something, such as the edge of an elevated stage. -F

http://produkte.k-m.de/en/Speakerli...olders/Speaker-stands/213-Speaker-stand-black
 
I have a pair of CX215's and created a wooden base that has a tripod mount bolted to it, and the base mounts to the speaker's L-Track rigging using special L-Track bolts that lock into the channels. I only raise them to the second or third position on my tripods which puts the woofer at 6 feet-ish. Definitely requires 2 people to get the speaker up and onto the tripod. Everything was purchased off amazon except the wood.


Screenshot_20230206-143810.pngScreenshot_20230206-143800.pngFE200744-PK_home.jpeg81vN6dMMHcL._AC_SX679_.jpg
 
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The thing to remember about flying anything is that it’s a simple job for a manufacturer to put in a top hat mount. Pennies on the price. If they don’t, there’s a reason. Here, the solution works. The question is how strong is it? We’ve all done home brew adaptions. It comes down to liability in an accident, which is your own, for doing the design yourself. The weight of the speaker vs the ability of the filets on the welds in the smaller bracket. The bolt ‘pull-through’ force on the wood needs thought too. Without washers, you have what? Maybe 3mm of edge timber on the hole? Might be sufficient, but what is your conclusion as to the most likely failure reason? Vertical force probably is taken care of with what has been done. How about in a fire, when people will push past to get to an exit? What if they catch the cable? Will substantial side force applied from wherever the speakons are provide a moment that will exceed the timber’s ability to resist the pull through force? Would a metal top plate provide more strength than wood? I like to reduce this down to Judge Judy bite size questions. “How did you know it was safe?” Your answer sets the blame.

I suppose it boils down to our own ability to accept the risk. I’ve got some substantial 6m wind ups. Every time I put a couple of 40lb boxes on them and turn that handle I have to stop turning at some point, and it’s always below the maximum. It’s the point my knowledge, experience and courage say enough. That would fail the judge Judy test. Experience is not proof of safety. Nowadays being a manager means accepting responsibility. I’d be able to use these brackets and make my decision on height. I’d probably add big washers, that’s all. Looking inside speaker cabs with proper mounting Points often reveals very simple mechanics, that they determined were acceptable. The key feature is THEY decided. Can you imagine the designer of d&b being asked by Judge Judy why they didn’t fit a top hat? Their answer would kill your case. Nowadays, you do a risk assessment, and stand by your opinion.

I’ve done this kind of thing, and that feeling you get when your perhaps a little too tall speaker on a stand suddenly gets surrounded by lots of drunken women dancing at an Abba tribute is a really horrible lump in the throat moment. That’s when the Judge Judy stare pops into your head.
 
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