I have a fair number of different shure systems both IEM and WL mics and am considering investing in a directional antenna. I dont think I need active as I dont need any gain. Suggestions for something to add to my inventory that will give me more range and allow aiming away from heavy rf sources in difficult downtown RF areas.
Helical or paddle antenna for both IEM and WL mics
- Thread starter Brian Frost
- Start date
Re: Helical or paddle antenna for both IEM and WL mics
What are you using now? How many channels and what are you using for combiners/splitters?
What are you using now? How many channels and what are you using for combiners/splitters?
Re: Helical or paddle antenna for both IEM and WL mics
I have 8 channels of shure slx, some ulx, 4 channels of uhfr, and Im considering 4 channels of ULX-D. I have 4 channels of shure psm400 and I own 1 shure wireless microphone antenna distro. I generally find the 1/4 or 1/2 wave antennas work just fine. Im interested in having a reasonably sized antenna as an additional choice for longer distances or to aim away from strong RF sources on in the case of an event I have coming up, aim the antenna through a 6' x6' opening in a brick wall from the board in one room to the performer on IEMs in another room 80 ft away. Im looking for choices. sometimes it would be used with a distro, sometimes with a single channel.
I have 8 channels of shure slx, some ulx, 4 channels of uhfr, and Im considering 4 channels of ULX-D. I have 4 channels of shure psm400 and I own 1 shure wireless microphone antenna distro. I generally find the 1/4 or 1/2 wave antennas work just fine. Im interested in having a reasonably sized antenna as an additional choice for longer distances or to aim away from strong RF sources on in the case of an event I have coming up, aim the antenna through a 6' x6' opening in a brick wall from the board in one room to the performer on IEMs in another room 80 ft away. Im looking for choices. sometimes it would be used with a distro, sometimes with a single channel.
Re: Helical or paddle antenna for both IEM and WL mics
The Shure PA805 is a pretty decent starting point. Passive so you can use it with any system.
Helical or circular polarization is a good choice for IEMs, since you don't have diversity on the receivers and so the one transmit antenna has a more critical job.
The Shure PA805 is a pretty decent starting point. Passive so you can use it with any system.
Helical or circular polarization is a good choice for IEMs, since you don't have diversity on the receivers and so the one transmit antenna has a more critical job.
Re: Helical or paddle antenna for both IEM and WL mics
the shure pa805 is the obvious choice and currently first on my list, wondering if there are other options I should be considering. anyone tried the Kaltman circular polarized antenna?
AV: Kaltman Creations Introduces IWxCPA Wireless Microphone/IEM System Antenna - Pro Sound Web
I like the package look but what about compatibility and functionality?
the shure pa805 is the obvious choice and currently first on my list, wondering if there are other options I should be considering. anyone tried the Kaltman circular polarized antenna?
AV: Kaltman Creations Introduces IWxCPA Wireless Microphone/IEM System Antenna - Pro Sound Web
I like the package look but what about compatibility and functionality?
Re: Helical or paddle antenna for both IEM and WL mics
Haven't tried the Kaltman thing.
But the Professional Wireless domed helical thing is pretty nice.
Haven't tried the Kaltman thing.
But the Professional Wireless domed helical thing is pretty nice.
Re: Helical or paddle antenna for both IEM and WL mics
Brian,
Disclaimer - I am NOT even remotely a wireless guru. But, from a practical use standpoint, we started using a pair of the Katzman's on our Sennheiser 2000 series mics the beginning of this season. The first use we needed to get good reception everywhere in a 3200 seat theater. I mean everywhere. Floor, mezzanine, balcony, stairwells leading to each. I put a pair of the Katzmans all the way upstage about 10 feet apart and facing the audience. The results were excellent. We have been very happy with them. They may not be as good as the true tube and domed style helical scans - I don't know - but they do work very well, and the flat form factor is a big plus for transport. FWIW.
Brian,
Disclaimer - I am NOT even remotely a wireless guru. But, from a practical use standpoint, we started using a pair of the Katzman's on our Sennheiser 2000 series mics the beginning of this season. The first use we needed to get good reception everywhere in a 3200 seat theater. I mean everywhere. Floor, mezzanine, balcony, stairwells leading to each. I put a pair of the Katzmans all the way upstage about 10 feet apart and facing the audience. The results were excellent. We have been very happy with them. They may not be as good as the true tube and domed style helical scans - I don't know - but they do work very well, and the flat form factor is a big plus for transport. FWIW.
Re: Helical or paddle antenna for both IEM and WL mics
Sennheiser 300/2000 series and the Shure 1000 series receivers all have diversity now, but I still always spec and use a helical for IEMs.
Re: Helical or paddle antenna for both IEM and WL mics
thank you steve, thats the kind of info Im looking for. Have you ever used it directly connected to a wireless microphone? I would generally use it connected to a distro but I can see instances where it would be directly connected to a single unit. Part of the reason Im considering the kaltman is that its passive so it shouldnt necessarily overload the non split input.
thank you steve, thats the kind of info Im looking for. Have you ever used it directly connected to a wireless microphone? I would generally use it connected to a distro but I can see instances where it would be directly connected to a single unit. Part of the reason Im considering the kaltman is that its passive so it shouldnt necessarily overload the non split input.
Re: Helical or paddle antenna for both IEM and WL mics
Sorry, Brian, so far we've only used it with splitter/combiners.
Sorry, Brian, so far we've only used it with splitter/combiners.
Re: Helical or paddle antenna for both IEM and WL mics
It generally doesn't matter whether you connect an antenna to a splitter or directly to a single receiver. Only issue might be a receiver that doesn't provide power for an active antenna... which is not your stated application anyways.
It generally doesn't matter whether you connect an antenna to a splitter or directly to a single receiver. Only issue might be a receiver that doesn't provide power for an active antenna... which is not your stated application anyways.
Re: Helical or paddle antenna for both IEM and WL mics
Without reading any other replies, I'll just say helicals are WAY WAY over used and almost always unnecessary. That being said I have a kit of 2 helicals, 2 LPDAs, 4 cables, and various adapters in a storm case for rent
. Most RF issues can be solved with proper coordination and with WWB6 there is really no excuse anymore. The computer does most of the work. Use really high quality SHORT antenna cables. The stuff Professional Wireless sells, that Belden makes is super flexible and really nice. Not cheap for a wire, but well worth it. The passive wide band LPDA antennas (shark fins, bat wings, etc) Shure sells will work with your IEMs and your mics. Keep the transmit and receive antennas as far apart as practical and don't point the at each other. Keep your 2 diversity antennas apart as far as practical so they are guaranteed a different path from the transmitters. It may help to have the receive antennas 45 degrees apart in the angle. You can use a boom on one. Unused transmitters that are on should be placed so the antenna of one is near the capsule of the next in an alternating pattern. This helps eliminate intermod that happens from a bunch of transmitters sitting together on a table. I always use "More Robust" in WWB unless I just can't get enough frequencies. I've done shows with 32 mics, and 18 com frequencies. Less than some and more than others. At the same time there were hundreds of UXLs in the surrounding rooms. I am by no means an RF guru. I have found things that work for me. YMMV.
Without reading any other replies, I'll just say helicals are WAY WAY over used and almost always unnecessary. That being said I have a kit of 2 helicals, 2 LPDAs, 4 cables, and various adapters in a storm case for rent
. Most RF issues can be solved with proper coordination and with WWB6 there is really no excuse anymore. The computer does most of the work. Use really high quality SHORT antenna cables. The stuff Professional Wireless sells, that Belden makes is super flexible and really nice. Not cheap for a wire, but well worth it. The passive wide band LPDA antennas (shark fins, bat wings, etc) Shure sells will work with your IEMs and your mics. Keep the transmit and receive antennas as far apart as practical and don't point the at each other. Keep your 2 diversity antennas apart as far as practical so they are guaranteed a different path from the transmitters. It may help to have the receive antennas 45 degrees apart in the angle. You can use a boom on one. Unused transmitters that are on should be placed so the antenna of one is near the capsule of the next in an alternating pattern. This helps eliminate intermod that happens from a bunch of transmitters sitting together on a table. I always use "More Robust" in WWB unless I just can't get enough frequencies. I've done shows with 32 mics, and 18 com frequencies. Less than some and more than others. At the same time there were hundreds of UXLs in the surrounding rooms. I am by no means an RF guru. I have found things that work for me. YMMV.Re: Helical or paddle antenna for both IEM and WL mics
For one show you could rent helicals but for 80ft LPDAs are fine. I go much much further than that in large rooms. Against the advice of many A2s that want to nap backstage, I keep all my receivers at FOH and put my LPDAs on mic stands on top of racks at FOH.
For one show you could rent helicals but for 80ft LPDAs are fine. I go much much further than that in large rooms. Against the advice of many A2s that want to nap backstage, I keep all my receivers at FOH and put my LPDAs on mic stands on top of racks at FOH.
Re: Helical or paddle antenna for both IEM and WL mics
I emailed them about something else and Kaltman himself has been responding to me and FAST. If his stuff is any good, I can tell you it will be a pleasure doing business with him from what I can tell so far.
I emailed them about something else and Kaltman himself has been responding to me and FAST. If his stuff is any good, I can tell you it will be a pleasure doing business with him from what I can tell so far.
Re: Helical or paddle antenna for both IEM and WL mics
after talking to the techs at Kaltman, Im going to order a pair. I will let you all know how I like them once I get some house with them. Im sure they are overkill for my uses but they are similar priced to shure paddles so Im going to give em a try.
after talking to the techs at Kaltman, Im going to order a pair. I will let you all know how I like them once I get some house with them. Im sure they are overkill for my uses but they are similar priced to shure paddles so Im going to give em a try.
Re: Helical or paddle antenna for both IEM and WL mics
To Kaltman is probably just a modified RFID antenna, look at this in comparison to the Kaltman: Alien Wide Band Circular Antenna ALR-8696-C by RFIDSupplyChain.com
To Kaltman is probably just a modified RFID antenna, look at this in comparison to the Kaltman: Alien Wide Band Circular Antenna ALR-8696-C by RFIDSupplyChain.com
I'm quite interested in this thread, as I'm looking for an IEM antenna right now.
That RFID antenna does not sit in the frequency range I need, which is a bummer because the price is right.
Sent from my SCH-I605 2
That RFID antenna does not sit in the frequency range I need, which is a bummer because the price is right.
Sent from my SCH-I605 2
People. antennas were designed for one direction. Yes, passive antennas can be used in either outbound or inbound rf situations, But the manufactures have designed them for one direction...helical is outbound, use a powered shure for inbound....take this test...
let me see how you get on...
forms.office.com
let me see how you get on...
Microsoft Forms
I guess that explains why every transceiver site (land mobile, marine, radar, cellular, deep space, etc.) uses separate antennas for transmit and receive, and why the antenna equations include terms for the direction of the radio wave relative to the antenna...