High pich sound capture / analyze

Lasse Thomsen

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I am new to this and have worked on this for 3 months, so if I sound a bit slow, please teach me.

I have bought a Samsung TV with a One Connect box, basically a unit that has electronics, connections (HDMI….) and the power supply you can place away from the TV and connect with one cable. Unfortunately, the box (I believe the power supply) starts making 2 different high pitch noises in 2 different situations. I make recordings, which is very difficult. I just can’t catch the full effect of the sound with my mobile phone or tablet. Perhaps it is the microphone or the speakers that can’t handle high pitched noises.

I now contact Samsung who agrees there is an issue and can hear the noise on my recording. Suddenly after some time they decided that there is no noise. Months later and much busy work and demands (resets, tests, videos not only audio) from Samsung I am trying to make a video with visual evidence of the high-pitched noise.

Method:
Samsung Galaxy Tab S5e with Sound Analyzer Pro app installed. (Tablet)
Samsung Galaxy S9 to make a video of the Sound Analyzer app on the tablet. (Mobile phone)

Situation 1: (Not a problem, just used the quite sound as a test)
When the TV is on, it makes a high-pitched noise from the power supply, so low that to hear it I must put ear right next to the One Connect box.
I put the tablet next to the box and start the app. Clear sound spikes at 3266,4 Hz and 6532,7 Hz, and they disappear when I turn off the TV. So, I am happy, it does the same thing with other sounds too, and now I am thinking my method works.

Picture 2022.04.06 SoundAnalyzer TV on -spikes
2022.04.06 Picture - SoundAnalyzer TV on -spikes.png

Video 2022.04.06 TV on - off - spikes disppear
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vbqrkxb0cx77ipu/2022.04.06 Video - TV on , off - spikes disppear.mp4?dl=0


Situation 2: (The real problem, I complaining to Samsung about)
Sometimes the box makes a loud pitched noise, unfortunately it is periodically, and takes a long time to “catch it” happening. I can clearly hear it from 4 meters away, so the frequency must be in the audible rang, 20Hz – 20K Hz.
It is much louder than in situation 1, and therefore it is easy to see in the Analyzer app, but NO NOTHING.

Picture 2022.04.06 SoundAnalyzer - Situation 2 - nothing
2022.04.06 Picture -  SoundAnalyzer - Situation 2 - nothing.png


I just don’t understand. Is my method wrong? Is my equipment just bad? Have I misunderstood this on a fundamental level?
Any advice? Or comments?
 

Lasse Thomsen

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To be a bit more clear:
I am looking for a method to capture the sound visually, so i can prove to samsung support it is real, and not only in my head.
 

Lasse Thomsen

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The One Connect Box is a part of the TV. Returning it, yes. I am trying too, but samsung is claiming that there is no sound. So it is a audio problem as i need to capture the sound and prove it is real, and that i am not lying or have the illness "tinnitus".
 

Paul Lewendon

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Oct 8, 2019
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I see...I mean hear :). Too bad it wasn't new enough that the stores return policy wouldn't just let you do that. If it's not a proprietary power supply, you could just try and swapping it out. Too high of a frequency and you probably won't find a sound device that will get it but shooting a video of your waveform along with that explanation might help. Have you had anyone else listen to it in case you're right about your ears just being sensitive enough that others can't, I've come across that when I worked in the TV industry, my ears were not sensitive enough, and they were ear-blind to certain frequencies.
The original post only got emailed to me this morning, sometimes it can take close to a week to get out, I don't know if it's automated, or needs to clear, or manually cleared, etc.
 

Lasse Thomsen

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The first recording i made and sent to Samsung was bad, but others could hear the sound, so could Samsung........... For 3 weeks then wuppss "There is no sound".
Vendor return: 30 days. It started happening after 60 days. Complained to samsung after 80 days.

I got a screen shot of my tablet while the periodical high picted noise was there (I could hear it), and when it stopped. The marked spikes in the below audio spectrum picture also disappeared.
2022.04.08 1225 pic, periodisk hyletone - med markering.png
As you can see the "spikes" are not clear or high. My goal is to buy some equipment, and get a better / clear spike. (And catch it on a video, so you can see the spikes disapear.

What can i buy that will do that? I will have to pay and i am willing to, so i would really like it to make a big differens.
(Suggested items: I live in Denmark, so shipping and costums is a big deal. Zoom H1n = 100 eur, Zoom H2n = 150 eur and MM-6 proberly around 80 eur) Are they the cheapest and good options.

Idea:
I have a PC, so perhaps sensitive microphone with a 3,5 jack , and use Audacity for recording directly on the PC? And the spectrum analyze with LMMS and voxengo to prove there is a sound?
 
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Paul Johnson

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Oct 27, 2012
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The problem here is that despite you hearing them, they are really quiet. 3dB or so above the noise floor. This is the problem when recording sound. If you look at the noise your recording device has, as a natural part of it's design, to improve on this you will need a real low noise recording device, and a phone is NOT that. They're designed to function at a rock concert for YouTube and tiktok videos, not recording a flea fart at a metre away. Find somebody with a decent condenser mic and low noise interface/preamp. There's no point trying to improve what the phone can do - they're just not built to do this job. find a home recordist who has decent low noise kit and you will get a decent result. or build a sound treated enclosure to put the noisy box in.
 

Lasse Thomsen

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So buying new equipment is a must. Thx
Is a "Zoom H1n" or a Dayton "Audio iMM-6 Calibrated Measurement Microphone for iPhone, iPad Tablet and Android" a low noise recording device?
The picture i posted above took me like 10 days and many hours to catch, so putting the TV in a pro studio inverment is not practical, and i don't have any freinds or family in that field of work anyways.

Plz. keep posting guys. I feel like I am learning a little more every time.
 

Lasse Thomsen

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The problem here is that despite you hearing them, they are really quiet. 3dB or so above the noise floor. .............
Is there any litterature / scientific / university papers or studies that says that even a 3 db high frequency noise can cause stress / bad sleeping or other negative effekts?
If i can get my hands on a professional study, that says a a 3 db high frequency noise gives negative effekts. Well i only have too prove 3 db at 3k or 6k Hz, and i have that picture.
 

Paul Lewendon

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Oct 8, 2019
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Judging by the comments, It's sounding like that it's so quiet that you struggle to hear it, needing to be up close to the equipment to hear it, if so that's likely why microphones have troubles recording it, and Samsung no longer wants to deal with it. Is it only bothering you when up close or when the room is quiet ? If not, it seems like alot of trouble and expense to go through for something that may not be fixable, as it may be a natural phenomenon that isn't going to go away even when exchanging equipment out.
Did you end up trying another power supply ?
The suggestion the other Paul had, making a box for the power supply to deaden the sound, may be your best option if that's the case.
 

Paul Johnson

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Oct 27, 2012
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I doubt very much that you'll find any educational paper on this subject because it falls into psychoacoustics, where very odd things happen and science tries to use existing rules to form conclusions. It's similar to the study of tinnitus. Very clearly, tinnitus exists, but so far the best science just generalises as to what people hear. I have very mild tinnitus and using all the software and hardware I have, I cannot seem to produce what I am hearing, and I'd like think I have the necessary skills needed to describe what I hear? Sound is notoriously difficult to pigeon hole - and with age related upper limits, it's not even possible to generate a proper baseline for an individual's hearing. We can measure our sensitivity at different frequencies, but if somebody is hearing distortion, we have no way to tell, and what if the individual does not understand what distortion sounds like? My dear old mum used to complain a sound was "sharp" - we tried to work out what she meant, but we never did. She also said things vibrated - what did that mean? Keep in mind that most people can only just detect a 2dB increase or decrease in sound level.
 

Paul Lewendon

Member
Oct 8, 2019
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I doubt very much that you'll find any educational paper on this subject because it falls into psychoacoustics, where very odd things happen and science tries to use existing rules to form conclusions. It's similar to the study of tinnitus. Very clearly, tinnitus exists, but so far the best science just generalises as to what people hear. I have very mild tinnitus and using all the software and hardware I have, I cannot seem to produce what I am hearing, and I'd like think I have the necessary skills needed to describe what I hear? Sound is notoriously difficult to pigeon hole - and with age related upper limits, it's not even possible to generate a proper baseline for an individual's hearing. We can measure our sensitivity at different frequencies, but if somebody is hearing distortion, we have no way to tell, and what if the individual does not understand what distortion sounds like? My dear old mum used to complain a sound was "sharp" - we tried to work out what she meant, but we never did. She also said things vibrated - what did that mean? Keep in mind that most people can only just detect a 2dB increase or decrease in sound level.
I may know what your Gramma might have meant by sharp, if it's what I occasionally hear. For me it's those higher pitched sounds that hurt and make you flinch and recoil like you've been shocked or cut by something, except the knife is the sound. The way our brains interpret things, I wouldn't be surprised if it's like colour, etc. where your "sensors" interpret it in its own way, not necessarily the same as the original.
 

Lasse Thomsen

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Keep in mind that most people can only just detect a 2dB increase or decrease in sound level.

Excatly what I want a paper to state. It is more "what is physical posible to hear"
Samsung claims the noise is not audible, but it is. And in my picture the spikes are louder then 2 dB. Ofcourse Samsung will claim this is not true and i am wrong, but now i have something to write in a complaint to "TÆNK" a DK consumer advisor, that will help you file a complaint in the system, if you have a strong enough case. Maybe just maybe, they will say Ok or maybe just go NO.

Paul Lewendon

Yes, it is a lot a trouble for a little thing, but they a in the wrong, and trying to ignore me and insult me, makes me wanna do a complaint so much more. I am trying to find documents / papers on the topic, because if it is just NO i will get stuck with fees (100 - 200 eur), which i will accept and give up, but not before a 3ed party "TÆNK" advisor tells me I don't have a strong case.
 
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Lasse Thomsen

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If the attached image is truly representative, I'd be as skeptical as Samsung. Picking out only those, so close to the noise floor, is super human, IMHO.

I am not happy with the picture either, but it is what i am getting.

About the super hearing:
The TV (QN95A) is actually making 2 noises. I am only talking about the high pitched periodical noise, because that is the loudest and the audible problem going to sleep at night. There is also a constant very low buzzing noise, that can be described as a "trapped fly noise".

I have spent hours reading and writting on forums, one of which is Samsung own forum:
https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/tv/noisy-one-connect-box/td-p/4073720/page/4

In here 8 - 9 peolpe are complaning about a "high pitched periodical noise" and a buzzing "trapped fly noise", but what really proves there is something is the fact that a couple of them tells that Samsung support in their counrtrys haver replaced mother boards, coils............. and even given replacement units. This would not happen unless a tech know there is a problem.
This rules out superhearing, tinnetus, being crazy like Samsung underhandedly suggested i was. (On the phone, no written proof. Sadly)

But this does not change the fact that the posted picture is weak. It does indicate that the sounds is there. Plz, help me capture it properly......... I need to capture the high pitched periodical noise as clear as possible in a visual way. When Samsung refuses that, and if the proof is good enough, I am a member of "tænk" a Danish consumer advisor place, that will help you take the next step. Often them getting involved and saying the proof is there is enough to change the mind of customer support

This can take months even years, and in the mean time you have to use the product, and more people will buy it --> more people will be reading forums.
I installed a power switch, and i cut the power at night. That solves my sleeping issue, but it is no fair that you have to do that on a "high end" TV. Also others are getting a raw deal from samsung too. A method to capture visual proof could help more people than just me.

Idea:
If i where to buy a stand alone recorder like Zoom H1n make .wav file, and use a PC program to analyze it. Would it make a better picture (higher more clear spikes)?
I am thinking the better mic would just recorder a better sound floor, and the high pitched periodical noise would not be more clear. I hope i am very wrong.
 
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Lasse Thomsen

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Update:
I have been working on capturing the periodical high pitced noise with my samsng S5e tablet, and i am just not happy with the results. So i have ordred Zoom H1n recorder, and I will be working on capturing a .wav file.
However with delivery and the randomness in capturing a periodical noise it might take some time.
Thx for all the advise now and in the future. I will keep this thread updated with my results.
 

Lasse Thomsen

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Based on your posts, especially the first one, I thought you meant it was the power supply for the box made by Samsung that was hooked up to the TV.
Yes, you are correct.

I am using a samsung tablet S5e with a mic to try and capture the noise from the TV. And that is not working so i have bought a zoom h1n recorder. Waiting on it to be delivered atm.
Sry, should have been mor clear
 
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