Ideas for future DIY speaker projects

Jeff Babcock

Jeff Babcock

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Jan 11, 2011
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I'd like to use this thread to gather ideas for future projects to consider re this DIY section of the site.

Feel free to share anything you'd like to see. They don't have to be well thought out ideas, just looking for some very simple brainstorming at this point. Don't worry about practical details of how ideal it would be for DIY at this point. Just fire away.....

Here are some to get things started:

- a drummer's monitor - all in one box - something with enough low end output to handle plenty of kick drum without requiring a separate sub, but much more compact than 2x15/horn type cabs.

- a very low profile front fill box

- a very light high output 3 way box

- cabs with some sort of adjustable coverage pattern (ie easily field swappable horn or flares etc)
- perhaps even something that is able to be vertically OR horizontally arrayed
 
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Re: Ideas for future DIY speaker projects

DIY Synergy Horn
DIY pole-mount or ground stacked line array box

For the former, I think it would take a lot of trial and error and aversion to copying a semi-famous speaker designer's work too closely. For the latter, it would probably be best left to others to design a flying frame and fly points for those who need to take it to that level.

I have seen dozens of proven-design plans for subwoofers, including the LAB sub, tapped horns, vented boxes, etc. on this and other web sites. I don't really see a need for sub designs that have been beaten to death elsewhere.
 
Re: Ideas for future DIY speaker projects

I think that synergy horns should be off the table for this forum. TD has been a huge contributor to this and many other online communities. Lets let him make his hay while the sun is shining. I for one do not want to chip away at his unique position in the market.

For future DIY I would like to see a mid/hi cabinet for the one man operation. I'm thinking something capable of being stacked by one person. It needs to be either super loud for a single box system, or arrayable so that 2 or more cabs can be used, either vertically or horizontally arrayed. If being arrayed, the design should have presets designed for 1,2,3 or more cabs.

I am thinking something along the lines of what BFM is doing except with real components and using, y'know, science and stuff. A horn loaded 12"/2" box would appeal to me. Especially if we could figure out an easy to build mid horn/phase plug type thing.
 
Re: Ideas for future DIY speaker projects

Tim Weaver said:
I think that synergy horns should be off the table for this forum. TD has been a huge contributor to this and many other online communities. Lets let him make his hay while the sun is shining. I for one do not want to chip away at his unique position in the market.

For future DIY I would like to see a mid/hi cabinet for the one man operation. I'm thinking something capable of being stacked by one person. It needs to be either super loud for a single box system, or arrayable so that 2 or more cabs can be used, either vertically or horizontally arrayed. If being arrayed, the design should have presets designed for 1,2,3 or more cabs.

I am thinking something along the lines of what BFM is doing except with real components and using, y'know, science and stuff. A horn loaded 12"/2" box would appeal to me. Especially if we could figure out an easy to build mid horn/phase plug type thing.
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I respect your position on attempting the synergy concept, and have no interest in competing with any pro audio manufacturer. On the other hand, does the LAB sub "compete" with pre-made cabs, or does it fill a need that isn't or can't easily be met by the usual suspects? FYI, some of the hifi enthusiasts on other forums are asking TD for a DIY SH50 kit...that would be fun to build.

An alternative to the synergy concept would be for another way of skinning the point source cat, maybe with a coax...pole mount version. Many of the issues being discussed on the coax floor monitor thread would be prevalent here, with the added question of making the unit horn-loaded for efficiency and pattern control, and whether to try to shape the sound with biamp digital processing or passive network. If someone were really ambitious, maybe a triaxial...few choices are available there, and lots of electro-acoustic problems to solve.

I laughed at your BFM comment:) Reminded me of a musician/songwriter who'd be ok if he could play, sing, or write.
 
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Re: Ideas for future DIY speaker projects

Tim Weaver said:
And if anyone is interested in a flyable line array design, I have an idea for box to box rigging that should be cheap and easy to build while offering the strength and hinges needed for flying an array.
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Tim,

I suggest if you do anything like this in a public forum where your name is clearly attached to the rigging definition, you first get it approved by an engineer and then tested to failure by an approved agency.
 
Re: Ideas for future DIY speaker projects

MY 8)~:cool:~:cool: preferred order will be
Jeff Babcock said:
- a very light high output 3 way box

- a very low profile front fill box
Click to expand...
and later on
- a drummer's monitor - all in one box - something with enough low end output to handle plenty of kick drum without requiring a separate sub, but much more compact than 2x15/horn type cabs.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Ideas for future DIY speaker projects

Klaus Zimmermann said:
MY 8)~:cool:~:cool: preferred order will be

and later on
Click to expand...


I will repost what I said earlier in the thread.

For future DIY I would like to see a mid/hi cabinet for the one man operation. I'm thinking something capable of being stacked by one person. It needs to be either super loud for a single box system, or arrayable so that 2 or more cabs can be used, either vertically or horizontally arrayed. If being arrayed, the design should have presets designed for 1,2,3 or more cabs.
Click to expand...

This could be a 3 way. Or not. I don't really care as long as it's light enough for one person to stack and loud enough to get the job done.

Honestly I like the idea of the JBL SRX738 but the price is too high for me. I would want to use 4 per side and I can't swing a box that expensive.



Before people start complaining that the 738 isn't a high efficiency box, go look at the specs for the mid-hi section. When you stack up 4 of them together you'll bring the low-mid efficiency up to match the hi-mid section. Then you have a rig!
 
Re: Ideas for future DIY speaker projects

My free time to help push these sorts of projects has significantly changed in the last while (as has happened to a couple of other contributors), which is one of the reasons why the coaxial wedge project kind of lost momentum. I was very thankful to see that Michael Smithers ran with it and came up with a great looking coax wedge that included many of the ideas we had discussed.

I'll gladly participate in discussion if folks want to work towards something, but am not able to commit to making sawdust anytime soon.
 
Re: Ideas for future DIY speaker projects

Tim Weaver said:
This could be a 3 way. Or not. I don't really care as long as it's light enough for one person to stack and loud enough to get the job done.

Honestly I like the idea of the JBL SRX738 but the price is too high for me. I would want to use 4 per side and I can't swing a box that expensive.
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There are a few 3 way designs out there already, one that seems popular is the X-Tro, from the Speakerplans site. One of those per side is pretty serious, but with 2 hornloaded 15's in the LF section and a large MF horn, it makes for a big and heavy cab.

Back when I suggested a light high output 3 way cab, I was using KF650's and loved them except for the weight. I'd probably look at something along the lines of a Fulcrum Acoustic DX1565 or DX1595 to get similar HQ output in a much lighter package if I were in the market for something like that now.

Certainly there are some stellar coax drivers available now, which does increase potential for space savings and reduced weight. As most DIY'ers wouldn't be keen to tri-amp, a passive crossover would be necessary which of course adds to the project complexity and cost. 3 ways are not the ticket for those looking for a low cost solution. I think a horn loaded low mid section coupled with a high quality HF driver capable of big output and relatively low crossover point may be an easier approach.

Trying to come up with something that is vertically arrayable, even if only stacked flat, is another can of worms. There are a few DIY designs for this type of thing from folks like Bill Fitz, though I would steer clear of those as I think their performance claims are vastly overstated. There are a few ways to approach it but lots of pitfalls and compromises to be made. While I'd love to see a good DIY design for this sort of thing, I'm falling more into the camp now of believing that I can't DIY something that will be competitive with the pro market, particularly now that FIR processing is becoming so prevalent.

Wedges, sure. Front fills, sure. Subs, sure. 2 way traps, sure. Despite loving DIY I don't think it is worth the effort to try to compete in the more difficult design tasks like vertical arrays or 3/4 way designs. Without the tools to do FIR, the cost of trial and error, and the amount of cost both in drivers and materials but also time, it's pretty hard to compete with commercial stuff now like could be done more easily 10 or 20 years ago. Geez, I have some Mackie HD1531's that only cost a grand per, are 3 way, powered, and have FIR processing. They sound fantastic for that price point. I really don't think I could design, build, power, and process a 3 way cab of competing quality for a grand even if I consider my labor as free. And what DIY'er wants to spend more than a grand on a cab that will have no resale value and may not even be sonically competitive?

I'm probably sounding a little jaded.... not that I have given up on DIY, but I'm just feeling that the range of designs suited to DIY are shrinking if the goal is to build something sonically competitive.
 
Re: Ideas for future DIY speaker projects

I'm in agreement with Jeff here. Commercial speakers have the benefit of economies of scale, mass production, and really smart people (like Dave Gunness). There's no real way a DIYer is going to compete and actually win, at least for complicated full range high-output boxes like Jeff states.

I'd be interested stuff a bit simpler to build - maybe a single 21" sub that is truly done right? There are quite a few off-the-shelf 21s available now.
 
Re: Ideas for future DIY speaker projects

I am with you. That's why my suggestions were a bit open-ended as to what type of cabinet (whether 2 or 3 way, horns, front load whatever). I'm looking for easy one-man operation and high SPL from the system whether the system be a single cab per side up to 3-4 per side.

One thing I would like to see is an easy to make phase-plugged mid horn. I have an idea on the construction method if anyone is interested but I don't know enough about horn design to calculate the horn itself. If we could get from 300-400 up to 4k or over we would have something. The entire vocal "intelligibilty" band on one driver with no crossover. I think that would be pretty serious.


As far as vertical array goes, I'm guessing that is out the window. Honestly, the only thing I think we could do as diy'ers competitively would be some type of all in one box system like the SLS LS8695. And to bring it down to my market a little more, I'd like to build a bose L1 killer but even that may not be cost effective.


A real 21" sub appeals to me as well. In fact I have a pair of 18sound 21LW1400's that I picked up for a song that are waiting for the right cabinet. If you want to play along they are cheap over at 18 SOUND_21LW1400
 
Re: Ideas for future DIY speaker projects

Tim Weaver said:
As far as vertical array goes, I'm guessing that is out the window. Honestly, the only thing I think we could do as diy'ers competitively would be some type of all in one box system like the SLS LS8695. And to bring it down to my market a little more, I'd like to build a bose L1 killer but even that may not be cost effective.
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I mulled around a box idea that used 3 line array waveguides with BMS4552ND HF and 4 front loaded 12" LF/MF drivers in what would effectively be a vertically arrayable box that would get very loud as a single (drivers arranged similar to the EAW JFL210 style, but a much larger cabinet). Essentially something that as a single box could keep up with 2 or 3 of the VRX/JFL/KLA/etc vertical array on stick boxes. But when I figured out my cost of materials on it, it was about $1900 per box, not including processing and power (or labor!). And if I wanted to go to beefier HF drivers (like B&C WGX800) that could cross over lower (more ideal considering the driver arrangment), put that around $2600 per box.

Ya, I think if I did it, it'd get pretty loud and could probably sound pretty good. But am I willing to spend enough cash and put in the time to do it? Not at this point in time, unless Dave and Rich would feel like making me some FIR presets for it..... ;)
 
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Re: Ideas for future DIY speaker projects

Jeff Babcock said:
I mulled around a box idea that used 3 line array waveguides with BMS4552ND HF and 4 front loaded 12" LF/MF drivers in what would effectively be a vertically arrayable box that would get very loud as a single (drivers arranged similar to the EAW JFL210 style, but a much larger cabinet). Essentially something that as a single box could keep up with 2 or 3 of the VRX/JFL/KLA/etc vertical array on stick boxes. But when I figured out my cost of materials on it, it was about $1900 per box, not including processing and power (or labor!). And if I wanted to go to a beefier HF driver that could cross over lower (more ideal considering the driver arrangment), put that around $2600 per box.

Ya, I think if I did it, it'd get pretty loud and could probably sound pretty good. But am I willing to spend enough cash and put in the time to do it? Not at this point in time, unless Dave and Rich would feel like making me some FIR presets for it..... ;)
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Once you get to that level of investment, ROI pretty much guarantees that you'd be way better off just buying a 'real' speaker that's marketable and cross-rentable, like VT4886, VRX, etc.

(Many may wonder why I sold my LAB subs. Well the SRX728S subs that I got to replace them have paid for themselves in less than a year with just cross rentals! The LABs never got rented. Ever.)
 
Re: Ideas for future DIY speaker projects

Silas Pradetto said:
(Many may wonder why I sold my LAB subs. Well the SRX728S subs that I got to replace them have paid for themselves in less than a year with just cross rentals! The LABs never got rented. Ever.)
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Indeed. This is one of the biggest DIY barriers. Performance of your DIY project might be the greatest thing ever, but you'll most likely be the only one who'll use it. Lab subs are serious subs, but nobody other than the owner typically wants to try something that they don't know. Everybody and their dog has access to SRX subs and recognizes the logo, therefore they are what gets asked for. As a result of these economic realities, there is little value to most pro companies (exceptions such as Clair noted)in investing in DIY endeavors unless the results are reeeeeeeeeeeeealllly compelling.
 
Re: Ideas for future DIY speaker projects

Ben, there are some DIY horns that I know of use that driver, but they don't fit your "handy" request very well, they're quite large cabs. The lab driver is well suited to a box that is too small for some other drivers (as per Art W's 2x12" lab design). You could use something like Eminence Designer to quickly whip up a front loaded box design that would suit your needs with pretty solid extension down low at the expense of upper range bass output.
 
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