Large aircraft hangar acoustics

J

Jared Koopman

Junior
Jun 13, 2012
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16
Colorado
Any tips or tricks with dealing with highly reverberant rooms? I'm providing sound for a b52 tribute band this weekend and the venue is a n aircraft hangar.

It's a fundraiser and it's not a concert, just "live band during cocktail hour" type deal.

Thanks
 
Re: Large aircraft hangar acoustics

Fundraiser means there will be a speech. Are you responsible for the speech being understood by those in attendance?
 
Re: Large aircraft hangar acoustics

I think that you need to do what you can to get the people as close to your speakers as possible. Talk to the event planner about this and make sure she understands that the attendees likely won't be able to understand unless they are corralled to your sweet spot (and make sure to tell her where your sweet spot is). You should be able to come up with some ideas about how it should work and a hangar likely has areas that people in suits and fancy dresses shouldn't wander to anyway. I hope your wireless is either a handheld or ear set mic and your podium mics have long necks to really get close to the 'speecher' (you need to really poke em in the eye). You will probably be impressed with how much "room" ends up in your podium or, God forbid, lavaliere mics. Cue it up in headphones to hear what you're getting. Remember, GIGO.
The band portion will probably be business as usual and so long as it isn't painful, it won't really matter what it sounds like.

btw, how big of a hangar are we talking about?
 
Re: Large aircraft hangar acoustics

drew gandy said:
I think that you need to do what you can to get the people as close to your speakers as possible. Talk to the event planner about this and make sure she understands that the attendees likely won't be able to understand unless they are corralled to your sweet spot (and make sure to tell her where your sweet spot is). You should be able to come up with some ideas about how it should work and a hangar likely has areas that people in suits and fancy dresses shouldn't wander to anyway. I hope your wireless is either a handheld or ear set mic and your podium mics have long necks to really get close to the 'speecher' (you need to really poke em in the eye). You will probably be impressed with how much "room" ends up in your podium or, God forbid, lavaliere mics. Cue it up in headphones to hear what you're getting. Remember, GIGO.
The band portion will probably be business as usual and so long as it isn't painful, it won't really matter what it sounds like.

btw, how big of a hangar are we talking about?
Click to expand...

44,000 sq feet according to the coordinator. The band I have worked with before and they are good.
 
Re: Large aircraft hangar acoustics

I would also recommend raising the PA as high as possible/practical and aiming it down toward the majority of the crowd. That would improve intelligibility by getting most of the HF/MF projected directly at the listeners and at the same time heaving less off-axis spill that is creating the reverb.

:)~:)~:smile:
 
Re: Large aircraft hangar acoustics

Nimrod Webber said:
I would also recommend raising the PA as high as possible/practical and aiming it down toward the majority of the crowd. That would improve intelligibility by getting most of the HF/MF projected directly at the listeners and at the same time heaving less off-axis spill that is creating the reverb.

:)~:)~:smile:
Click to expand...

Of course this depends on the directivity of your speakers. I wouldn't fly something with zero low mid pattern control close to the ceiling.

Sent from my SCH-I545
 
Re: Large aircraft hangar acoustics

drew gandy said:
I think that you need to do what you can to get the people as close to your speakers as possible. Talk to the event planner about this and make sure she understands that the attendees likely won't be able to understand unless they are corralled to your sweet spot (and make sure to tell her where your sweet spot is). You should be able to come up with some ideas about how it should work and a hangar likely has areas that people in suits and fancy dresses shouldn't wander to anyway. I hope your wireless is either a handheld or ear set mic and your podium mics have long necks to really get close to the 'speecher' (you need to really poke em in the eye). You will probably be impressed with how much "room" ends up in your podium or, God forbid, lavaliere mics. Cue it up in headphones to hear what you're getting. Remember, GIGO.
The band portion will probably be business as usual and so long as it isn't painful, it won't really matter what it sounds like.

btw, how big of a hangar are we talking about?
Click to expand...
EXACTLY!

Probably the biggest thing that will make a difference is getting the mic as close to the mouth as possible-think 1 inch!!!!!!!!!!!!

Having the most signal (speaker voice) to noise (sound of the room coming into the mic) ratio will make a BIG difference.

Also use a high pass pretty high up on the mic (most likely anyway) to keep the "rumble" out. It will not sound as "full", but will be clearer-which is more important for a speech.
 
Re: Large aircraft hangar acoustics

Silas Pradetto said:
Of course this depends on the directivity of your speakers. I wouldn't fly something with zero low mid pattern control close to the ceiling.

Sent from my SCH-I545
Click to expand...
Pattern control (ie LARGE HORNS) are your friend. If you are simply spewing sound everywhere and energizing the reverberant field.

Sometimes it is much better to get the speakers and the people closer together.

What works is a behaved room often does not work in a reverberant space.
 
Re: Large aircraft hangar acoustics

Ivan Beaver said:
Pattern control (ie LARGE HORNS) are your friend. If you are simply spewing sound everywhere and energizing the reverberant field.

Sometimes it is much better to get the speakers and the people closer together.

What works is a behaved room often does not work in a reverberant space.
Click to expand...

and keep those horns as narrow as possible, keep the pattern off the walls, ceiling and floor as much as you can, and depending on the decay add some slight reverb to the signal. Play with the decay and freq a bit, I don't know why but it has always helped me in a gym to help ears localize the sound source better than without. Maybe it causes some cancelation, but don't use too much, just a little dab will do.
 
Re: Large aircraft hangar acoustics

Depending on which way things are set up and what you are allowed to do, opening the hangar doors will change the acoustics a lot, even a relatively small opening will make a big change in an empty hangar.
 
Re: Large aircraft hangar acoustics

Glenn Adams said:
and keep those horns as narrow as possible, keep the pattern off the walls, ceiling and floor as much as you can, and depending on the decay add some slight reverb to the signal. Play with the decay and freq a bit, I don't know why but it has always helped me in a gym to help ears localize the sound source better than without. Maybe it causes some cancelation, but don't use too much, just a little dab will do.
Click to expand...
And of course the narrower the pattern of the horn the LARGER it has to be to have the same control to the same freq. So narrow horns can get to be QUITE large-IF they are to be effective.

A small narrow horn only has pattern control over the top octaves at best.

SIZE matters when it comes to horns.
 
Re: Large aircraft hangar acoustics

Per Søvik said:
Depending on which way things are set up and what you are allowed to do, opening the hangar doors will change the acoustics a lot, even a relatively small opening will make a big change in an empty hangar.
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That will help. Anything to reduce the possible reflections is a good thing. "Open windows"are great for getting rid of reflections.

Also moving the stage close to one wall will help. So that the reflections from the far wall will be reduced in level due to the extra distance.
 
Re: Large aircraft hangar acoustics

Ivan Beaver said:
That will help. Anything to reduce the possible reflections is a good thing. "Open windows"are great for getting rid of reflections.

Also moving the stage close to one wall will help. So that the reflections from the far wall will be reduced in level due to the extra distance.
Click to expand...

The stage is smack dab in the middle of the room. It is an air museum so there are jets/planes along the sides
 
Re: Large aircraft hangar acoustics

Well, the more "stuff" there is in the room the better. [Except when the stuff is in the way of what you are trying to do.] Acoustically, all the stuff is usually at least good for diffusion if not some absorption.
 
Re: Large aircraft hangar acoustics

So it will be ground stack with Qsc kw153 mains, kw181 subs, k12 monitors. I could setup k12 delays if needed. Not sure yet the exact layout
 
Re: Large aircraft hangar acoustics

Is this taking place at Wings Over the Rockies?

I have yet to operate sound in aircraft hangars, but have a lot of observational experience as a "patron" for the past 28 years. My take-aways: Hard surfaces galore! Even with aircraft, chairs, people, or whatever to absorb or break up the sound, it's challenging. Get speakers up relatively high and aim downward toward audience as others have mentioned. Recommend the band play at a lower volume, at least to begin so you and the band can get a better feel of the environment.

For the human speaker(s), a proactive approach is to give a quick lesson on mic technique so that they avoid holding wireless mics like ice cream cones or backing off the mic at the first hint of hearing themselves in the mains. I suspect that opening bay doors probably won't be your call and, depending on outside temp, not likely to happen.

Can you let us know how it turns out?
 
Re: Large aircraft hangar acoustics

Tom Roche said:
Is this taking place at Wings Over the Rockies?

I have yet to operate sound in aircraft hangars, but have a lot of observational experience as a "patron" for the past 28 years. My take-aways: Hard surfaces galore! Even with aircraft, chairs, people, or whatever to absorb or break up the sound, it's challenging. Get speakers up relatively high and aim downward toward audience as others have mentioned. Recommend the band play at a lower volume, at least to begin so you and the band can get a better feel of the environment.

For the human speaker(s), a proactive approach is to give a quick lesson on mic technique so that they avoid holding wireless mics like ice cream cones or backing off the mic at the first hint of hearing themselves in the mains. I suspect that opening bay doors probably won't be your call and, depending on outside temp, not likely to happen.

Can you let us know how it turns out?
Click to expand...

Hi Tom.

Yes at the Wings Over The Rockies and yes the doors will be closed.

I can stack two subs under the 153's. trying to figure out how to get them higher than that without flying them.

The stage deck is about 2ft up. I have 6.5' and 4ft truss being used for lighting but I am not sure that will be stable enough to put a speaker on top not to mention difficult to aim.

I suppose I could put them on te 6ft truss and the truss on the floor and the stage would offer a little lateral support . I don't want to risk them getting knocked over.
 
Re: Large aircraft hangar acoustics

Jared Koopman said:
Hi Tom.

Yes at the Wings Over The Rockies and yes the doors will be closed.

I can stack two subs under the 153's. trying to figure out how to get them higher than that without flying them.

The stage deck is about 2ft up. I have 6.5' and 4ft truss being used for lighting but I am not sure that will be stable enough to put a speaker on top not to mention difficult to aim.

I suppose I could put them on te 6ft truss and the truss on the floor and the stage would offer a little lateral support . I don't want to risk them getting knocked over.
Click to expand...

No sense doing anything unsafe...

You could rent a pair of ST25s and fly from those, but I don't think that the KM153 has enough pattern control to make that worthwhile. Stage in the center will help reduce the monitor wash.

You've already been given good advice in this thread. My experience has been that in highly reverberant spaces, the best approach is to minimize how much energy you dump into the room. This means keeping the energy on the people and off the walls, and keeping the level down (this includes the band!). A few bands of parametric EQ are also very helpful, especially if you plan on putting any LF energy into the space. If you do end up using delays, highpass is your friend.
 
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