Letting someone else run your rig.

J

Jimmy Hardin

Junior
Jan 29, 2013
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Ok here is the situation. I have started supplying sound for national acts now and sometimes they come with their own sound man and possibly their own board that they are comfortable with. Now my question is this, should I make some rules for him to go by or should I just assume that he is a professional and won’t damage my gear. I am running Carvin LS series tops and subs and Carvin dcm3800L 1,125 Watts @ 4 ohms per side and a Carvin dcm2000L and a HD3000 bridged on both amps for a total of 4,100 Watts between both amps.


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Randy Gartner said:
You should make sure your system has limiters on so they don't blow anything up.Not sure what kind of national acts you're getting, but Carvin isn't something you would ever see on a rider of any National acts.
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I do have my limiters on for sure. they are getting some older acts like Mickey Gilley , Charlie pride etc. Some national acts from the 70's 80's. I did a show for the queen of Bluegrass Rhonda Vincent with that system and surprisingly she loved the system. I was shocked. I am like you I have never seen a piece of carvin gear named at all on a rider at all.
 
Peak limiters are to protect drivers against mechanical damage caused by big amplifiers and accidental transients (e.g. guitarist unplugs from a live DI). They do not protect against thermal damage unless they are set at least 3dB below the long-term power handling capacity of the drivers in question, and could contribute to cooking drivers in certain situations.

In my opinion, the best way to avoid issues with cooking drivers is to make sure you have enough rig for the gig (and if you aren't the one driving the rig, it needs to be enough rig for the band engineer).
 
Mike Caldwell said:
You do not want to ever assume that!!
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Ya. I have seen "engineers" that don't like what they see, and set out on a mission to destroy shit.
I had one such a*hole removed by police from my "house"
Plenty of rig for the room, but he decided even before the system was powered up that it was crap.
Chris.
 
Chris Hindle said:
Ya. I have seen "engineers" that don't like what they see, and set out on a mission to destroy shit.
I had one such a*hole removed by police from my "house"
Plenty of rig for the room, but he decided even before the system was powered up that it was crap.
Chris.
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well, I can always cut the amps off between his board and the speakers if i have to. LOL This rig is plenty for the venue. I did a concert there before and had to turn the whole mix down cause it was getting too loud. so i am not worried about it not being enough rig for the gig.

 
I have found that 90% of band's engineers are nice people who are easy to work with. The rest are either suffering from hearing damage or are trying to prove something ( the latter are usually younger). Use limiters to protect your rig, know your rig well, be polite and advise them when they are approaching the limit and when they reach it. Most of the time, folks are respectful. When they are not, I still recommend being polite, but always protect your gear. Rolls the amps down some, tighten the limiters, etc. Assuming your rig meets the specs of the rider, and is acceptable to the party paying for it, you are well within your rights. Sometimes you meet someone who isn't happy with life or has an unreasonable brand preference. I have had a band's engineer, back in the day, tell me my rig would sound better if I had a different house EQ. My EQ was a Klark Teknik DN370...... you can't please them all.
 
Jimmy Hardin said:
I do have my limiters on for sure. they are getting some older acts like Mickey Gilley , Charlie pride etc. Some national acts from the 70's 80's. I did a show for the queen of Bluegrass Rhonda Vincent with that system and surprisingly she loved the system. I was shocked. I am like you I have never seen a piece of carvin gear named at all on a rider at all.
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I've done a fair bit of work with Rhonda over the last 20 years. She's been a delight to work with and her band is always top notch.

The bluegrass circuit is full of small PA, much of it in mediocre condition (or worse). If your rig was fully functional and you didn't "rock and roll" the mix I'm not surprised Rhonda was happy. If you got the monitors dialed in quickly without feedback, I'm surprised she didn't give you a big hug, too!

To answer your first question, though...

First, you've gotten some good answers so far - the BE may be good, may be bad, the only distinction for us as PA providers is "is this operator about to damage stuff?" If that answer is no, then let him/her do their job. If there is concern about levels, bring this up with the BE immediately. "I think you might be over-playing the room, and you're into the limiters on the tops (or subs or whatever). You might want to walk the room and check the over all volume and I'd be a lot more comfortable if you got the rig out of limit." If he doesn't cooperate you start turning down the drive (at the amps, or DSP, or where ever, post-console, you can.
 
Tim McCulloch said:
I've done a fair bit of work with Rhonda over the last 20 years. She's been a delight to work with and her band is always top notch.

The bluegrass circuit is full of small PA, much of it in mediocre condition (or worse). If your rig was fully functional and you didn't "rock and roll" the mix I'm not surprised Rhonda was happy. If you got the monitors dialed in quickly without feedback, I'm surprised she didn't give you a big hug, too!

To answer your first question, though...

First, you've gotten some good answers so far - the BE may be good, may be bad, the only distinction for us as PA providers is "is this operator about to damage stuff?" If that answer is no, then let him/her do their job. If there is concern about levels, bring this up with the BE immediately. "I think you might be over-playing the room, and you're into the limiters on the tops (or subs or whatever). You might want to walk the room and check the over all volume and I'd be a lot more comfortable if you got the rig out of limit." If he doesn't cooperate you start turning down the drive (at the amps, or DSP, or where ever, post-console, you can.
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Thanks for the tip. I am going to be on guard and watch him and the amps to make sure nothing happens. I talked to him on the phone and he seemed really nice to talk to and seemed like he wouldn't hurt anything at all. so maybe it will all go good. And as for Rhonda, She was a absolute joy to work with. I was a little nervous at first cause i wasn't sure at the beginning of soundcheck how it was going to go. but it went so good. She was so down to earth and her band was too and they were top notch. we worked really well together . She would hear something that needed to be changed and then i would hear it , then i would hear something and then she would hear it. It was great. as far as their monitors goes , they were all using their own monitor system with shure IEM so i didn't have to worry about that.
 
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