Line array compromises - how to balance?

Re: Line array compromises - how to balance?

Bennett Prescott said:
As you add more boxes you can do more tricks, but there's nothing invalid about a 4, 2, or even one box line array. It obviously still works, if the HF coverage will do what you want then life is good.
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Re: The line array on stick setups, I assume the main advantage of these setups is minimizing reflections by directing HF energy into specific areas (ie keeping it off of the ceiling/back wall in particularly cavernous venues), are there any other benefits?
 
Re: Line array compromises - how to balance?

Spenser Hamilton said:
Re: The line array on stick setups, I assume the main advantage of these setups is minimizing reflections by directing HF energy into specific areas (ie keeping it off of the ceiling/back wall in particularly cavernous venues), are there any other benefits?
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Most of these are fixed dispersion, e.g. actually trap arrays. I suggest you treat versions that allow multiple angles the same way. The benefits are being able to use fewer or more depending on how much you're getting paid, and the increased LF energy and vertical dispersion you get with additional cabinets.
 
Re: Line array compromises - how to balance?

David Karol said:
We all know 4888s can sound very good when well tuned and deployed. But how often do you see a d&b J, or Meyer MICA/MILO array poorly deployed? I think it's a lot more common to see that with Vertecs. I just think a lot of the Vertec rigs out there are in the wrong hands.
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I believe his is why L'Acoustics are such fascists about the training and buy-in requirements to get into their line sources. They don't want their boxes to sound like crap from poor deployment and give them a bad rap. It still happens, but I think the incidence are far less since you 1)have to plunk down many hundreds of thousands or even a million bucks to purchase minimum quantities of say K1 and 2) purchasing companies have to have factory trained personal on staff before you can purchase them. Some folks don't like this approach. But I can understand why the manufacturer would go this route to protect their reputation. Even EAW has changed their approach and has now implemented a similar program. I don't know if they're as hardcore about their requirements, but it's not the worst idea to help get their reputation back on track.
 
Re: Line array compromises - how to balance?

drew gandy said:
I know this is old but… I'm curious. Is it possible to "flunk" these factory trainings?
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I have not been to that many of the manufacturer training courses offered but of those I have attended the only such training I've seen people 'fail' was the old Crown IQ training where they had both a written and practical 'final exam' that you had to pass. They worked with everyone such that if you put in any effort you were likely to pass but if you got someone who really did not care they could fail.
 
Re: Line array compromises - how to balance?

Brandon G Romanowski said:
In the real world the low end will be a lot closer than it looks in the model.

I wouldn't stack line arrays if I could help it, in your second example I'd be really worried about slapback and consider that the software isn't showing you signal:noise.
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I agree with Brandon's first comment that the low end will fill the room more than the models indicate. I also know from my experience with column systems that a flat array will slap back hard, but that CAN be mitigated by angling the entire array vertically and horizontally to keep the beam on the audience.

I'd also second Jason's comment about keeping the line long to avoid blasting the front rows. When the total output is spread over a larger source area it is much less intense up close.
 
Re: Line array compromises - how to balance?

Hello TJ, Kind of off topic. Do you still have your EAW mini line array set up? The pictures of that rig inspired what I have now, do you prefer the sound of your JBLs compared to the EAWs?
 
Re: Line array compromises - how to balance?

Mark Phillips said:
Hello TJ, Kind of off topic. Do you still have your EAW mini line array set up? The pictures of that rig inspired what I have now, do you prefer the sound of your JBLs compared to the EAWs?
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I sold the JFL system earlier this year. Everything in life has pros and cons. When I bought the JFL system, I wanted something with more horsepower than my Mackie 450's and HPR112's, and the best sound quality I could afford. The JFL system did that pretty well. They sounded really good, and were at the time (late 2009) one of the few moderate-cost boxes that had focusing, and were flyable. Since then, my needs changed - my gigs were growing from 300-400 people to 600+ people, and the JFL system just wasn't enough horsepower.

Enter the 4886/4883 system - it has easily 10dB more output (at least the way I was powering the JFLs) than the JFLs (3 4886 plus 1 4883 per side), and sounds great. I only heard the two systems side by side on that one demo day, but the difference was like driving your 10-year-old car to the dealer then getting in to a brand new luxury car, then driving your 10-year-old car home. You didn't realize there was anything wrong with your old car until you drove the new one. All that being said, the 4886/4883 system was 3X the cost of the JFL system, and it takes 3X as long to set up and tear down. It also takes heavier-duty tripod stands, and weighs more.
 
Re: Line array compromises - how to balance?

TJ Cornish said:
I sold the JFL system earlier this year. Everything in life has pros and cons. When I bought the JFL system, I wanted something with more horsepower than my Mackie 450's and HPR112's, and the best sound quality I could afford. The JFL system did that pretty well. They sounded really good, and were at the time (late 2009) one of the few moderate-cost boxes that had focusing, and were flyable. Since then, my needs changed - my gigs were growing from 300-400 people to 600+ people, and the JFL system just wasn't enough horsepower.

Enter the 4886/4883 system - it has easily 10dB more output (at least the way I was powering the JFLs) than the JFLs (3 4886 plus 1 4883 per side), and sounds great. I only heard the two systems side by side on that one demo day, but the difference was like driving your 10-year-old car to the dealer then getting in to a brand new luxury car, then driving your 10-year-old car home. You didn't realize there was anything wrong with your old car until you drove the new one. All that being said, the 4886/4883 system was 3X the cost of the JFL system, and it takes 3X as long to set up and tear down. It also takes heavier-duty tripod stands, and weighs more.
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I got to hear 1 JFL system and I thought it sounded better than the VRX, but it still had the same "small box pushed really hard" sound. Separate events in the same auditorium.

Your 4886 rig is expandable in ways the JFL/VRX rigs are not, too. I think you picked a good product for your current needs that can grow in the future.
 
Re: Line array compromises - how to balance?

Tim McCulloch said:
I got to hear 1 JFL system and I thought it sounded better than the VRX, but it still had the same "small box pushed really hard" sound. Separate events in the same auditorium.

Your 4886 rig is expandable in ways the JFL/VRX rigs are not, too. I think you picked a good product for your current needs that can grow in the future.
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A few weeks ago I did a large ballroom (120' x 100') and I cross-rented to have 2x4883 + 5x4886 per side. It was a corporate - type show so not trying to rattle the ceiling tiles, but I was really happy with the sound quality, coverage, and headroom - the system was just idling along. Two years prior I did the same event in a smaller room with the JFL system and I was running out of gas. If I would have had a third JFL210 per side that would have helped a lot, but it still would have been under-powered for the event.

So far I'm happy, and having cross-rental opportunities is a huge advantage.
 
Re: Line array compromises - how to balance?

Thanks for the reply, I totally understand about making changes for what is best for your business. I am glad that it is working out for you. If you ever have the time please post pictures of your new set up.
 
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