M32C Configuration Problems - Bob Charest

[Bob Charest]

Hi,
I've started a tech support case with Midas on this, but thought it might be helpful to me to post here as well.

I've got 2 M32C units (Both at firmware level 2.14) and 1 DL32.

I want the FOH M32 to control outputs 13/14 (for remote speakers) and 15/16 (for FOH). I want the IEM M32C to get inputs from the DL32 but control DL32 outputs 1 through 12 for sending to IEM units. When connecting them individually, they each do what I want, but when used together, I cannot pass signal from the IEM M32C to the DL32 outputs even though I see signal present on the meters for the Mix Buses.

The FOH M32C is connected from AES50 Port A to the DL32 AES50 Port A to provide clocking. The IEM M32C is connected from AES50 Port A to the DL32 AES50 Port B. The IEM M32C is receiving clocking on AES50 Port A.

Routing for Both FOH M32C and IEM M32C has inputs 1 - 32 as AES50 A1-8, A9-16, A17-24, A25-32
Outputs for FOH M32C has outputs 1-12 off, outputs 13-14 to Matrix 1&2 (For remote speakers) and 15-16 to Main L/R.
Outputs for IEM M32C has outputs 1-12 to Mix Buses 1-12. Outputs 13-16 are off.

Am I missing something simple? The features list on the Midas site regarding the DL32 states "Automatic AES50 stage-split mode when connected between MIDAS M32 Series FOH and monitor consoles." That's the physical config that I've got, but no joy.

Lastly, on either console, when looking at Routing/XLR Outs, the display shows XLR Outputs 1-4 & 5-8. Why don't I see XLR Outputs 9-12 & 13-16? I would think I should.
Thanks for any help you can give...

Best regards,
Bob Charest

 

[Antoon van den Oetelaar]

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

The FOH M32C is connected from AES50 Port A to the DL32 AES50 Port A to provide clocking. The IEM M32C is connected from AES50 Port A to the DL32 AES50 Port B. The IEM M32C is receiving clocking on AES50 Port A.

I think this is your problem.
I have done and would do:
AES50 A FOH M32 to AES50 B IEM M32
AES50 A IEM to DL32 AES50 A.

Only use port B of the DL32 to any other stageblock (SD8, SD16 whatever)
I agree it's a bit tweaking, but I have had 2x X32 connected to 3x S16 without any problem, it's maybe not easy to configure for you. The only problem is that you have to think in blocks of 8 when routing.
So if you want some channels from IEM to the stageblock, you have to use a block of 8 minimum.

So 8 channels from the M32 FOH together with 8 channels from M32 IEM shouldn't be a problem (Maybe the output blocks are in the meantime split to 4 for the outputs, not sure about that)

 

[Bob Charest]

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

I think this is your problem.
I have done and would do:
AES50 A FOH M32 to AES50 B IEM M32
AES50 A IEM to DL32 AES50 A.

Only use port B of the DL32 to any other stageblock (SD8, SD16 whatever)
I agree it's a bit tweaking, but I have had 2x X32 connected to 3x S16 without any problem, it's maybe not easy to configure for you. The only problem is that you have to think in blocks of 8 when routing.
So if you want some channels from IEM to the stageblock, you have to use a block of 8 minimum.

So 8 channels from the M32 FOH together with 8 channels from M32 IEM shouldn't be a problem (Maybe the output blocks are in the meantime split to 4 for the outputs, not sure about that)

Thank you, Antoon. I will try this and get back to you. I appreciate you taking the time to help with this.

Best regards,
Bob Charest

PS: Page 10 of the DL32 Quick Start Guide shows FOH M32 going to Port A of DL32 and IEM M32 going to Port B of DL32. Oh well, I'm happy with what works - and, also want to understand it.

 

[Jan Duwe]

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Dear Bob,

The stage-plit setup you describe is working correctly, but there is a misunderstanding about assignments of incoming AES50 streams on the DL32 and the physical outputs. DL32 will only put out on XLR 1-16 what is sent to it on AES50 port A channels 1-16, not what is sent to it on AES50 port B. This is predefined and there are no controls on the stage box that allow any routing or configuration.

So in order to put out the IEM streams from the M32C that is connected on Port B, you would need to send those through the DL32 to the M32C that is connected on port A. Note that the upstream signals to port B will be transferred to Port A with shifted channel numbers+32, to make room for the DL32 mic preamp signals.
Hence the IEM signals 1-16 on Port B will appear on the M32C of port A as channels 33-48. Use the FOH-M32C routing options to select those signals for sending back to the DL32 that shall be put out on XLR1-12.

Hope that makes sense.

Best,
Jan

 

[Bob Charest]

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Hi Jan,

Thank you for your informative post. Today is a day dedicated to testing and making my system work correctly. Antoon mentioned above that I would need to use blocks of 8 ports, and that has certainly been my experience so far. In your post, it appeared as though I can use ports 1-8 for IEM and also use 9-12 for IEM and 13-16 for remote speakers & FOH. Have I got that correctly?

Thank you,
Bob Charest

 

[Bob Charest]

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Hi Antoon,

I tried the connection configuration that you've used previously, but I couldn't get any sound from the output ports. I think Jan's comments above explain why, but I'm going to test again. The splitting to groups of 4 is going to be the thing I need to clarify. As I need 12 ports for IEM and 4 for FOH I would either need to do this or use additional equipment. If you have time to share how you routed from FOH through IEM to allow FOH to come out the stagebox, I would really appreciate that.

Best regards,
Bob

 

[Henning Fjeld]

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Hi Antoon,

I tried the connection configuration that you've used previously, but I couldn't get any sound from the output ports. I think Jan's comments above explain why, but I'm going to test again. The splitting to groups of 4 is going to be the thing I need to clarify. As I need 12 ports for IEM and 4 for FOH I would either need to do this or use additional equipment. If you have time to share how you routed from FOH through IEM to allow FOH to come out the stagebox, I would really appreciate that.

Best regards,
Bob

DL32 stagebox AES50A to MONITOR M32C AES50A. MONITOR M32C AES50B to FOH M32C AES50A

SET YOUR FOH M32C TO SYNC FROM AES50A!

On monitor m32c set AES50B outputs to AES50A 1-8 all the way up to 25-32 to send all of the DL32 inputs coming from AES50A on the monitor m32c to the AES50A inputs on your FOH m32c.

Now, to get Main L/R and Remote speakers from your FOH m32c out of your DL32, do the following:

On your monitor m32c routing homepage set your aux in to remap AES50B 1-4, then go to your out 1-16 tab, scroll down to output 13 and choose direct out aux 1 pre fader, output 14 to direct out aux2 pre fader. These are your remote speaker/matrix outputs. Do the same with output 15-16 but from direct out aux 3 pre fader and direct out aux 4 pre fader. That is now your Main L/R output.

On your FOH m32c go to your P-16 outout page. Select output 1-2 to be your remote/matrix outputs and 3-4 Main L/R outputs.
remember post fader for these.

On your FOH m32c go to your AES50A output page. Here you will send the P-16 out 1-8 to AES50A out-1-8

Now you have Matrix 1-2 and Main L/R out of your DL32

Now, here`s a neat way to get eight more IEM/wedge mixes out of your system.

On monitor m32c go to the xlr out tab in your routing menu and select AES50 B9-12 on outputs 1-4 and AES50 B13-16 on the output 5-8

On your FOH mixer go to routing menu and AES50A tab, on AES50A outputs 9-16 select out 1-8

Now you have 8 more outputs for wedges and stuff from your 8 xlr outs on the back of the monitor m32c. Sendt from your FOH bus 1-8


Henning

 

[Antoon van den Oetelaar]

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Like this, I believe.

 

[Henning Fjeld]

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

DL32 stagebox AES50A to MONITOR M32C AES50A. MONITOR M32C AES50B to FOH M32C AES50A

SET YOUR FOH M32C TO SYNC FROM AES50A!

On monitor m32c set AES50B outputs to AES50A 1-8 all the way up to 25-32 to send all of the DL32 inputs coming from AES50A on the monitor m32c to the AES50A inputs on your FOH m32c.

Now, to get Main L/R and Remote speakers from your FOH m32c out of your DL32, do the following:

On your monitor m32c routing homepage set your aux in to remap AES50B 1-4, then go to your out 1-16 tab, scroll down to output 13 and choose direct out aux 1 pre fader, output 14 to direct out aux2 pre fader. These are your remote speaker/matrix outputs. Do the same with output 15-16 but from direct out aux 3 pre fader and direct out aux 4 pre fader. That is now your Main L/R output.

On your FOH m32c go to your P-16 outout page. Select output 1-2 to be your remote/matrix outputs and 3-4 Main L/R outputs.
remember post fader for these.

On your FOH m32c go to your AES50A output page. Here you will send the P-16 out 1-8 to AES50A out-1-8

Now you have Matrix 1-2 and Main L/R out of your DL32

Now, here`s a neat way to get eight more IEM/wedge mixes out of your system.

On monitor m32c go to the xlr out tab in your routing menu and select AES50 B9-12 on outputs 1-4 and AES50 B13-16 on the output 5-8

On your FOH mixer go to routing menu and AES50A tab, on AES50A outputs 9-16 select out 1-8

Now you have 8 more outputs for wedges and stuff from your 8 xlr outs on the back of the monitor m32c. Sendt from your FOH bus 1-8


Henning

Did this work out for you Bob?

 

[Bob Charest]

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Hi Henning (& Antoon),

Thank you for your help on this! I've just finished documenting what worked and have posted on the two other forums where I had threads in progress, so I was just coming back here to update results and thank you both.

We used the same AES50 connection approach that you had suggested, but were also able to get the 4-port assignment for FOH. I was helped with the routing by Paul Vannatto, one of the moderators on the Music Group forum. I've got exactly what I wanted, and we were able to get 12 MON output ports and 4 FOH output ports by using the Aux in Remap. Our approach also revealed a port shift in the mapping, which is described towards the end of this post - The solution that I found is also described.

This is a bit long, but might be useful to someone... and it certainly made me happy! Almost all of this was given to me by Paul, who was most helpful throughout.

M32Cs & DL32 AES50 Connections:
M32 FOH [AES50 B] <-> [AES50 A] M32 Mon [AES50 B] <-> [AES50 A] DL32

INPUT ROUTING:

M32 Mon, Routing, home (inputs from DL32)
* Inputs 1-8 -> AES50 B1-8
* Inputs 9-16 -> AES50 B9-16
* Inputs 17-24 -> AES50 B17-24
* Inputs 25-32 -> AES50 B25-32

M32 Mon, Routing, AES50-a (transfer DL32 inputs to FOH)
* Outputs 1-8 -> AES50 B1-8
* Outputs 9-16 -> AES50 B9-16
* Outputs 17-24 -> AES50 B17-24
* Outputs 25-32 -> AES50 B25-32

M32 FOH, Routing, home (inputs from DL32 via M32 Mon)
* Inputs 1-8 -> AES50 B1-8
* Inputs 9-16 -> AES50 B9-16
* Inputs 17-24 -> AES50 B17-24
* Inputs 25-32 -> AES50 B25-32

OUTPUT ROUTING:
(This routing contains a workaround of the bank of 8 routing limitation to get 12 IEM & 4 FOH outputs)

M32 FOH, Routing, Out 1-16 (output staging of FOH)
* Output 01 -> Matrix 1 (post fader)
* Output 02 -> Matrix 2 (post fader)
* Output 03 -> Main L (post fader)
* Output 04 -> Main R (post fader)

M32 FOH, Routing, AES50-b (outputs to DL32 via M32 Mon)
* Outputs 1-8 -> Out 1-8

M32 Mon, Routing, Out 1-16 (monitor outputs 1-8)
* Output 01 -> Mixbus 01 (post fader)
* Output 02 -> Mixbus 02 (post fader)
* Output 03 -> Mixbus 03 (post fader)
* Output 04 -> Mixbus 04 (post fader)
* Output 05 -> Mixbus 05 (post fader)
* Output 06 -> Mixbus 06 (post fader)
* Output 07 -> Mixbus 07 (post fader)
* Output 08 -> Mixbus 08 (post fader)

The FOH outputs now have to be brought into the M32 Mon as inputs, then staged (using the P16 bus) to be merged with the monitor outputs 9-12, then that bank of 8 is sent to the DL32.

M32 Mon, Routing, home
* Aux In Remap -> AES50 A1-4

M32 Mon, Routing, P16 Out INITIAL ROUTING:
* 01 -> Mixbus 09 (Post Fader)
* 02 -> Mixbus 10 (Post Fader)
* 03 -> Mixbus 11 (Post Fader)
* 04 -> Mixbus 12 (Post Fader)
* 05 -> DirOut Aux 1 (IN/LC)
* 06 -> DirOut Aux 2 (IN/LC)
* 07 -> DirOut Aux 3 (IN/LC)
* 08 -> DirOut Aux 4 (IN/LC)

When we did this, the resulting physical layout of outputs was offset by one pair (We don’t know why yet):
IEM 9/10 - DL32 15/16 (I thought this would be 9/10)
IEM 11/12 - DL32 9/10 (I thought this would be 11/12)
FOH
MATRIX 1 - DL32 11 (I thought this would be 13)
MATRIX 2 - DL32 12 (I thought this would be 14)
MAIN L - DL32 13 (I thought this would be 15)
MAIN R - DL32 14 (I thought this would be 16)

So, to get the one-to-one correspondence I wanted, I did the following:
M32 Mon, Routing, P16 Out
* 01 -> DirOut Aux 3 (IN/LC) MAIN L - DL32 15
* 02 -> DirOut Aux 4 (IN/LC) MAIN R - DL32 16
* 03 -> Mixbus 09 (Post Fader) IEM 9/10 - DL32 9/10
* 04 -> Mixbus 10 (Post Fader)
* 05 -> Mixbus 11 (Post Fader) IEM 11/12 - DL32 11/12
* 06 -> Mixbus 12 (Post Fader)
* 07 -> DirOut Aux 1 (IN/LC) MATRIX 1 - DL32 13
* 08 -> DirOut Aux 2 (IN/LC) MATRIX 2 - DL32 14

This gave me what I was after as far as physical location of outputs:

IEM 9/10 - DL 9/10
IEM 11/12 - DL 11/12
Matrix 1/Matrix 2 - DL 13/14
Main L/Main R - DL 15/16

M32 Mon, Routing, AES50-b (outputs to DL32)
* Outputs 1-8 -> Out 1-8 (monitor outputs 1-8)
* Outputs 9-16 -> P16 1-8 (monitor outputs 9-12, FOH outputs 13/14 & 15/16)

Thanks again for your help!

Best regards,
Bob Charest

 

[Henning Fjeld]

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Hi Henning (& Antoon),

Thank you for your help on this! I've just finished documenting what worked and have posted on the two other forums where I had threads in progress, so I was just coming back here to update results and thank you both.

We used the same AES50 connection approach that you had suggested, but were also able to get the 4-port assignment for FOH. I was helped with the routing by Paul Vannatto, one of the moderators on the Music Group forum. I've got exactly what I wanted, and we were able to get 12 MON output ports and 4 FOH output ports by using the Aux in Remap. Our approach also revealed a port shift in the mapping, which is described towards the end of this post - The solution that I found is also described.

This is a bit long, but might be useful to someone... and it certainly made me happy! Almost all of this was given to me by Paul, who was most helpful throughout.

M32Cs & DL32 AES50 Connections:
M32 FOH [AES50 B] <-> [AES50 A] M32 Mon [AES50 B] <-> [AES50 A] DL32

INPUT ROUTING:

M32 Mon, Routing, home (inputs from DL32)
* Inputs 1-8 -> AES50 B1-8
* Inputs 9-16 -> AES50 B9-16
* Inputs 17-24 -> AES50 B17-24
* Inputs 25-32 -> AES50 B25-32

M32 Mon, Routing, AES50-a (transfer DL32 inputs to FOH)
* Outputs 1-8 -> AES50 B1-8
* Outputs 9-16 -> AES50 B9-16
* Outputs 17-24 -> AES50 B17-24
* Outputs 25-32 -> AES50 B25-32

M32 FOH, Routing, home (inputs from DL32 via M32 Mon)
* Inputs 1-8 -> AES50 B1-8
* Inputs 9-16 -> AES50 B9-16
* Inputs 17-24 -> AES50 B17-24
* Inputs 25-32 -> AES50 B25-32

OUTPUT ROUTING:
(This routing contains a workaround of the bank of 8 routing limitation to get 12 IEM & 4 FOH outputs)

M32 FOH, Routing, Out 1-16 (output staging of FOH)
* Output 01 -> Matrix 1 (post fader)
* Output 02 -> Matrix 2 (post fader)
* Output 03 -> Main L (post fader)
* Output 04 -> Main R (post fader)

M32 FOH, Routing, AES50-b (outputs to DL32 via M32 Mon)
* Outputs 1-8 -> Out 1-8

M32 Mon, Routing, Out 1-16 (monitor outputs 1-8)
* Output 01 -> Mixbus 01 (post fader)
* Output 02 -> Mixbus 02 (post fader)
* Output 03 -> Mixbus 03 (post fader)
* Output 04 -> Mixbus 04 (post fader)
* Output 05 -> Mixbus 05 (post fader)
* Output 06 -> Mixbus 06 (post fader)
* Output 07 -> Mixbus 07 (post fader)
* Output 08 -> Mixbus 08 (post fader)

The FOH outputs now have to be brought into the M32 Mon as inputs, then staged (using the P16 bus) to be merged with the monitor outputs 9-12, then that bank of 8 is sent to the DL32.

M32 Mon, Routing, home
* Aux In Remap -> AES50 A1-4

M32 Mon, Routing, P16 Out INITIAL ROUTING:
* 01 -> Mixbus 09 (Post Fader)
* 02 -> Mixbus 10 (Post Fader)
* 03 -> Mixbus 11 (Post Fader)
* 04 -> Mixbus 12 (Post Fader)
* 05 -> DirOut Aux 1 (IN/LC)
* 06 -> DirOut Aux 2 (IN/LC)
* 07 -> DirOut Aux 3 (IN/LC)
* 08 -> DirOut Aux 4 (IN/LC)

When we did this, the resulting physical layout of outputs was offset by one pair (We don’t know why yet):
IEM 9/10 - DL32 15/16 (I thought this would be 9/10)
IEM 11/12 - DL32 9/10 (I thought this would be 11/12)
FOH
MATRIX 1 - DL32 11 (I thought this would be 13)
MATRIX 2 - DL32 12 (I thought this would be 14)
MAIN L - DL32 13 (I thought this would be 15)
MAIN R - DL32 14 (I thought this would be 16)

So, to get the one-to-one correspondence I wanted, I did the following:
M32 Mon, Routing, P16 Out
* 01 -> DirOut Aux 3 (IN/LC) MAIN L - DL32 15
* 02 -> DirOut Aux 4 (IN/LC) MAIN R - DL32 16
* 03 -> Mixbus 09 (Post Fader) IEM 9/10 - DL32 9/10
* 04 -> Mixbus 10 (Post Fader)
* 05 -> Mixbus 11 (Post Fader) IEM 11/12 - DL32 11/12
* 06 -> Mixbus 12 (Post Fader)
* 07 -> DirOut Aux 1 (IN/LC) MATRIX 1 - DL32 13
* 08 -> DirOut Aux 2 (IN/LC) MATRIX 2 - DL32 14

This gave me what I was after as far as physical location of outputs:

IEM 9/10 - DL 9/10
IEM 11/12 - DL 11/12
Matrix 1/Matrix 2 - DL 13/14
Main L/Main R - DL 15/16

M32 Mon, Routing, AES50-b (outputs to DL32)
* Outputs 1-8 -> Out 1-8 (monitor outputs 1-8)
* Outputs 9-16 -> P16 1-8 (monitor outputs 9-12, FOH outputs 13/14 & 15/16)

Thanks again for your help!

Best regards,
Bob Charest

That`s great

But try my version as well, as you get another 8 outs on your m32c monitor console for wedges ;-)

 

[Bob Charest]

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

That`s great

But try my version as well, as you get another 8 outs on your m32c monitor console for wedges ;-)

Hi Henning,

I would do that if I had an M32, but as I've got an M32C with no XLRs except through AES50 connected stageboxes, I would need to get something like a DL16 to get 8 more physical outputs. Am I understanding you correctly? We use all 32 inputs and all 16 outputs currently. This application is for my 9-members ensemble with a mixture of stereo & mono IEM feeds, and the configuration doesn't change.

I like what you did, though - very cool! I'm very lucky to have access to those who have wrestled with the routing and come up with innovative approaches.

Thanks again,
Bob

 

[Bob Charest]

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Dear Bob,

The stage-plit setup you describe is working correctly, but there is a misunderstanding about assignments of incoming AES50 streams on the DL32 and the physical outputs. DL32 will only put out on XLR 1-16 what is sent to it on AES50 port A channels 1-16, not what is sent to it on AES50 port B. This is predefined and there are no controls on the stage box that allow any routing or configuration.

So in order to put out the IEM streams from the M32C that is connected on Port B, you would need to send those through the DL32 to the M32C that is connected on port A. Note that the upstream signals to port B will be transferred to Port A with shifted channel numbers+32, to make room for the DL32 mic preamp signals.
Hence the IEM signals 1-16 on Port B will appear on the M32C of port A as channels 33-48. Use the FOH-M32C routing options to select those signals for sending back to the DL32 that shall be put out on XLR1-12.

Hope that makes sense.

Best,
Jan

Hi Jan,

I've updated the thread with what we did to get what I wanted - I'm a very happy guy! I think you will like what we came up with.

Thank you for your help with this!

Best regards,
Bob Charest

 

[Henning Fjeld]

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Hi Henning,

I would do that if I had an M32, but as I've got an M32C with no XLRs except through AES50 connected stageboxes, I would need to get something like a DL16 to get 8 more physical outputs. Am I understanding you correctly? We use all 32 inputs and all 16 outputs currently. This application is for my 9-members ensemble with a mixture of stereo & mono IEM feeds, and the configuration doesn't change.

I like what you did, though - very cool! I'm very lucky to have access to those who have wrestled with the routing and come up with innovative approaches.

Thanks again,
Bob

My apologies. I was thinking M32R the whole time... Now I get it! :roll:

I actually had an X32 core some time ago, but sold it due to the fact I could not get my FOH main through it the way you wanted to now. But that was before Version 2.0. :?~:-?~:???:

 

[Bob Charest]

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

My apologies. I was thinking M32R the whole time... Now I get it! :roll:

I actually had an X32 core some time ago, but sold it due to the fact I could not get my FOH main through it the way you wanted to now. But that was before Version 2.0. :?~:-?~:???:

Ahh, progress!

On reviewing what I'd initially thought should be the AES50 connections between my components, I realize now that in the diagram on Page 10 of the DL32 Quick Start Guide, they are using M32 consoles, not M32C consoles. That would work with 8 outputs from the back of the M32 on stage for monitors.

I've learned a lot in this process, and I thank you for your help!

Best regards,
Bob

 

[alberto scolaro]

Good morning everyone,
and congratulations for the very interesting information on the forum.
I ask you for a suggestion and help to correctly configure the routing of my setup:

FOH:
M32C
SD8 (AES50-B)(for inserting audio from players or PCs). The SD8 outputs can be used for control room monitoring.

STAGE:
DL16 (AES50-A)
All XLR inputs are used for musicians and singers.
The outputs are used for the 6 wedges and the Master LR

How do you recommend setting up the routing?
For inputs I selected
AES50-A
Sources 1-8 Channels 1-8
Source 9-16 Channel 9-16
AES50-B
Sources 1-8 Channels 17-24
And everything works

I'm a bit confused about the outputs though...

I would also need help configuring the mixbus to be able to manage monitors, main LR and Fx

Thanks so much for the help

 

[Bob Charest]

I will look at this tomorrow. Recent eye surgery has me at a low level of efficiency.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[alberto scolaro]

I will look at this tomorrow. Recent eye surgery has me at a low level of efficiency.


Sent from my iPhone

Thanks Bob for the quick response.
It's not urgent. Priority to eye health ;-)