Metal/hardcore/punk live sound.

[Daniel lussier]

Ima relatively new sound guy with their own PA system, I do mostly metal and hard core shows and would love some advice and tips. Here’s what I have, here’s what I use, and here’s what I want in the future.

I own and use two new jbl eon 715s
Two 18 passive subs (B&C 18sp76 8ohm 600w nominal 1200w continuous)
Powering the subs with a 2 channel qsc xls 3402 parallel mode sending 700 watts @8ohm each channel to both subs 30hz + clip protector on
Behringer xpro crossover stereo 2 way 3 way crossover with mono sub out,
Yamaha emx16 powered mixer
16chanel +4 out put 100’stage snake.
2 Sennheiser e609 guitar mics
3 Sennheiser e604 drum mics
1 shure beta 57a for snare
Vocal mics vary but I have shure 58s shure pg48s and some audio technicas
And a 52a kick mic

I also own two jbl jrx 125 (jrx 100 series)
Two mackie fr2500 power amps
Mackie cfx16 mkii mixing board I want to start using.

My next investment was going to be the two powdered jbl eon 718s to match my two tops
A Behringer x producer + digital stage box

My next gig is an out door/indoor skate park so I was going to bring the jrx 125s and use my jbl eon 715s as stage monitors and I always use my subs at gigs

Usually I use the crossover on stereo two way and send the mono subwoofer out to my qsc run in parallel mode crossing over 120hz (b&c18sp76 40hz-2000hz response)
And sending left right high up to my jbl eon 715s but for my jrx 125s, I’d either do 100hz to the subs 100hz and uo to the jrx.

The mackie cfx16 mkii board I want to use over the yamaha emx sending the eon 715s full range signal and usuing the built in crossover at 80 or 60hz and using the mono sun out of the mackie cfx at 75hz to the qsc parallel input sending only 75hz to my subs so I don’t even need my crossover unless I use my jrx’s as mains. Then I’d do the same thing expect I wouldn’t use the sub out on the board is just use the crossover

I forgot to mention the 1 mackie fr2500 to power both jrx’s at 4 ohms each channel 750w

I always use low cut expect for kick and bass on everything
Vocalists are always clipping pre fader so I never use gain so I’ll use the pads on thoes channels
Tom mics clip a lot too.
Guitar mics I don’t even use if the guitarists don’t wanna lower their stage volume (sucks to suck vocalist sorry I can’t turn you up. You’re competing with your own band and I tried to say it lol)
I’ll shut the guitar mics right off.
I DI IN bassists through a DI box or the di out of their head and again depending on stage volume
I only add hi end on kick and try not to do any other Eq at all always taking away rather than adding cause clipping.

I’d love some eq advice, attention advice, gear advice with what I own and plan to get that I listed above please and thank you! I’m friends with lots of these bands too and their all not complete meat heads. Gear is usually pretty top tier.

Thank you!

 

[Roy Andrews]

Have you considered getting a Behringer X32 Rack (or similar digital rack mixer)? Then you can keep all your wires on stage & mix from a computer wherever you want to be in FoH. Even walk around with it & check your sound from various points in the venue, especially easy if you get some kind of touch screen ultrabook in the 12" to 14" range (1920x1080 FHD screen is best - I use an old Dell 7280 12" I got busted up for cheap & resuscitated).

No reason not to low cut the bass & kick, say at 20Hz. (Edit - fixed E to B for 5 string) Low B on a 5 string bass is about 30Hz (and low E closer to 40Hz on a 4 string), if your low cut has a steep curve, it will not affect the bass or kick & you keep from wasting valuable watts on amplifying frequencies that are of no musical value.

What is wrong with the subs you have? The new JBLs might simplify wiring being self powered & all, but in terms of bang for the buck, I'm not sure they bring all that much to the table.

I always try to get direct lines from the guitar pedalboard or amp. Less mics = less chance of feedback & less bleed from everything else on stage, especially drums. Most modern pedals, either for bass or guitar have fantastic amp modelers in them, so mic-ing amps is a lot less important than it was in the old days. If you can get the bass player to give you a more nasal sound, say by using more output from the bridge pickup, or by using something like a Fender Bassman B100 amp model (as opposed to an Ampeg B115 model) from a bass pedal, it will cut through the mix better, give you more bass punch & articulation for the audience.

You absolutely MUST get control of the stage volumes of amps. You do not want to be "chasing" the guitar amp with your system, that is a recipe for what I call "the mud mix"... where everything is really loud, but absolutely nothing is clear & articulate. You can use the bass player's amp to help out your system if you need to (although with dual 18's, you probably won't need much), but those guitar amp(s) have to come down to a reasonable volume, so that you can spread the guitar(s) out wide across your EONs on the FoH mix. Quieter & clean is always more impressive and less fatiguing to listen to than loud & muddy.

One thing that really helps control stage volumes is getting musicians in the habit of using in ears monitors. You can get wired in ears done on the cheap with the Behringer PowerPlay P2 (~$45 - freakin awesome little box). A cheap(ish) wireless option for somebody who runs around on stage is the Xvive U4 (~$220). This is where something like an X32 rack or QSC Touchmix comes in handy, with 10-11 AUXes to drive in ears monitors. There is nothing wrong with going mono on the in ears for a low budget option to get started. I do not condone the sharing of what I consider personal items (earbuds / In ear monitors), but right now (April 2022), if you search for "CCA NRA in Ear Monitor Earphones Electrostatic + 3 Magnetic Dynamic Driver", these things are an absolutely INSANE sound quality for a measly $25, so if your people are ok with the sharing of personal items, grab a bunch of these to go with the Behringer P2 boxes. Or get your people to buy them for themselves - they make amazing headphones for your portable music devices too.

Not a fan of Shure SM58 for male vocalists although it will tone down a shrill female vocalist - lol. The Sennheiser e935 gives a much better presence in the mix. Alternately, the mics that TC Helicon make for use with their vocal effects processors have excellent presence, and can sometimes be found for a real deal - but the safe bet is the e935.

If your mics are clipping, then you probably haven't done your gain staging properly. I sometimes see clipping on a really hot line from a guitar amp, even with board gain set to minimum, so that's where a direct box with a pad comes in handy. You can work on this without a band present by setting up your board at home & shouting & screaming into your mics & setting the gain so your channel meter is in the -12 range. Then when you set up with a real band, check to make sure it stays in that range... I'm assuming your channel meters are post gain and pre fader, but I don't know the boards you are using.

 

[David Morison]

No reason not to low cut the bass & kick, say at 20Hz. Low E on a 5 string bass is about 30Hz (closer to 40Hz on a 4 string), if your low cut has a steep curve, it will not affect the bass or kick & you keep from wasting valuable watts on amplifying frequencies that are of no musical value.

Just a minor bit of pedantry here - Low E from both a 4 & 5 string will be at exactly the same frequency (~ 41Hz assuming they're both in tune!) - as they're exactly the same note.

What the 5 string has is notes below that, typically down to a low B, which is right were you described at ~ 30Hz.

 

[Roy Andrews]

Yes, my bad, meant to say low B for the 5 string (assuming BEADG tuning). For some reason, all the bass players have gone nuts buying 5 strings in my country, not sure if it's the same in the first world countries or not. Nothing wrong with a good old 4 string in my opinion, but I'm old - lol. Was doing sound on analog boards in the late 70's. Love the new tech on the digital boards though, so much nicer than it was back then. Edited original post to fix this, but that has caused it to be hidden awaiting moderation for some reason.

 

[Lisa Lane-Collins]

For venues small enough that you're fighting the sound from stage, if you can balance the bass with the ear bleeding cymbals you'll create the illusion of the the mix being balanced without having to push out more mid range and treble content (vocals sitting bang up there with them though of course). To this end, yep yep yep bring those sweet as subs.