Mixing IEM

K

Kim Watson

Freshman
Jan 11, 2011
49
0
6
South Shields, United Kingdom
www.polarisaudio.co.uk
I was sat thinking the other day (dangerous thing for me to do), as a monitor engineer I don't think I have ever actually heard another engineers version of mixing in ear monitors. It's really easy as a monitor babysitter over the years hearing how the Pros are doing wedges / side-fills but with in-ears the babysitter tends to miss out on hearing whats actually going on.

I have recently taken over doing a band who are exclusively on IEM and my approach is different from their previous monitor guy. It got me wondering what are other peoples approaches to dealing with IEM, How do you construct your mixes? what tricks are you using to get that separation in there? and to generally make them sound good!

I approach it as a full mix as apposed to just the instrument or vocal of the person. Using panning to create the separation and layering verbs to create a bit of depth to the mixes. I've also started splitting channels to have compressed and uncompressed things in there. Uncompressed for say the singer..... and compressed for everyone else to keep their mixes stable.

I suppose I'm just looking for more ideas to steal!

Kim
 
Re: Mixing IEM

I'm not Varsity level, but if it's a band i've done before then I've made a recording of their previous performance and then will play back the recording through the board and mix a good even blend (to my ears.) I use that mix for all members then I boost the each person's instrument/vocal in their ear. That's usually a good starting place for me.
YMMV I'm a JV guy
 
Kim,

I think you hit most of my important points, but I will add that I really want an extra receiver so I can scan each of the signals going out to the stage.

I think that is the iem version of having a matching wedge in monitor world.
 
I do alot of channel splitting with IEM and a bit less so with wedges usually just vocals and acoustic inst. (multipurposed mics, different guitars, rock to acoustic songs, perc, etc), last tour was 42 lines from the stage, and 55 channels on the desk (56th my talkback, TB rail was FOH), If I had more channels, I would have definately split some more, and that's before effects (usually inserted on channels). Half of this is for sounds, the other is easier/dumberproof automation (never been a song to song scene/snapshot kinda mixer for a single band, but single song multiband/acts bring it on!)

As for mixes, it varies with the artists, as we all know some want very particular things, others want tailored foh mixes. Its just a matter of finding out what they want, and making the things they need intelligabe and the rest not as much and add in your flavour when fit. (I have a guitar player who doesn't think it sounds good unless his mix starts audiably clipping, limiting and distorting. My solution: use 3 busses for his iem mix, a badly heavily comp'd mix, a mix of what he needs clear, and buss those to a new bus to mix it together). Keeps him happy, and the gear operating linearily, and more importantly my cue bus sounding more like his mix path to his pack.

There's a few things i'd like to try to make things better (outboard mix gear - multiband comp, decent mixbuss comps), but it's usually outside of my cue buss path, or I'm out of dsp/console/io/resources for the gig. The new CL desks have me interested as it has almost the buss and dsp capacity that I've been longing for (the Venues come up way too short on busses, but a full rig has plenty of dsp).

I find it much like wedges, in that certain band members like the same kind of mixes, and the picky guys (hopefully) know how to ask and communicate for what they want.

As for listening to others mixes, I usually ask if the ME has an extra pack and listen on that if we've been hitting it off the rest of the day, as we all know most of us like to show off a bit and trade little tid bits here and there

Sorry I can't be more specific, as I too haven't heard the previous mixer, and your mixes.
 
Re: Mixing IEM

On the rare occasion that I get stuck doing IEM's, I do some of the following:

-Output HPF/LPF: 40hz, and 16k. This alone cleans up IEM mixes so much. RF is bandpass limited in this range anyway, and if you're sending a lot of HF gack through the mix, you can mess with your pilot tone(19k) which is accountable for keeping a clean stereo signal, along with some other important things.

-Output compression: Not as important, but I like to keep compression set to keep the transmitters out of the red, and the belt packs out of limit. Both of which sound like poo when you hit them. I do a 4:1 ratio, 4ms attack, 85ms release and a soft-ish knee.


As far as mixing goes...

-I'm a big fan of panning. Guitars, vox, drums, ect. Makes room for things without a volume war.

-Verbs are big. I've had guys complain all the time that they feel so dry with their ears in.

-Channel compression... Unfortunately, many guys I work with now want to be slammed with compression. They're so used to hearing their voice that way in the studio, that they can't sing without hearing it that way live. I've always been against it, but my guys say it's easier to sing with the compression...

-Channel strip LPF. Getting the HF fuzz out of guitars(LPF @ 5k) helps them hear their vocals easier without cranking it through the roof.

-High shelf on vocals: A little "air" around 12k seems to help clean up the vocals and make it easier to hear.



The few times I get stuck mixing ears, they want it to sound like a record, so it's a lot more compression these days...



Evan
 
Re: Mixing IEM

Brad Harris said:
There's a few things i'd like to try to make things better (outboard mix gear - multiband comp, decent mixbuss comps), but it's usually outside of my cue buss path, or I'm out of dsp/console/io/resources for the gig. The new CL desks have me interested as it has almost the buss and dsp capacity that I've been longing for (the Venues come up way too short on busses, but a full rig has plenty of dsp).
Click to expand...

Venue is now up to 24 auxes!



Evan
 
Re: Mixing IEM

Awesome, Cheers Guys, got a few more ideas from you!

Evan good point on the HPF and LPF on the mixes... the HPF are on for me all the time across all channels too..... I'm not compressing outputs as yet on the mixes, but Im also not clipping the inputs of the mixes. might sneak them in on the next run.

The difference in Freq response between listening on the PFL bus and what is actually received at the packs quite surprised me allot less HF at the packs.

Recently I have been running the pack in engineer mode and stepping through the mixes to monitor them, just lets me make sure no-one is turned on on our frequencies at festivals etc. as well as having the usual pack on the cue bus, its been a big help.

Panning the guitars has been the biggest help for me in the singers mix.... making that hole for the vocals to sit in.

:D Keep them coming.
 
Re: Mixing IEM

couple of thoughts i haven't seen anyone else bring up yet.

1. Occlusion Effect is a PITA for singers. that's the icky hollow sound the singer hears in their head when they sing that mixes with their monitor coming back to them. the worst part of it is that there is actually No Way for the Monitor Engineer to hear it. best way i know to work around it is to split the vocal mics and run one to the rest of the band and the other back to the vocalist with a pretty bright eq curve to compensate for the mud they hear in their head.

2. MOST singers shouldn't get compression back to themselves. it causes them to have really lousy mic technique which makes the FOH guy's job harder. the vocal mic SHOULD be compressed for everyone else. see split channels reference above. there are exceptions to this [sounds like Evan's band is one of them] but this has been the norm for me.

3. it's been said but... Panning, Panning, Panning. once you get an IEM rig with good stereo separation, there are easily 12-14 points in the stereo spread that you can 'place' things that are easily distinguishable from one another. best plan is to pan things according to how the performer is physically positioned on stage. but if, for instance, the player is stage left and there are 2 guitar players stage right of him, i'd still put one of those players towards his left side for separation. you can also spread stereo sources differently to create definition. i'm a guitar player and when i play i use a 2-voice guitar that produces electric and acoustic sounds at the same time, both in stereo. my acoustic sound is spread far left and right and my electric sound is at about 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock. everything still sounds centered, but i can hear the two sounds very distinctly.

that's all i got. the other ideas in this thread are very good as well...
 
Re: Mixing IEM

This goes along the lines over compressing an input back to his or her own mix.

I would also add that when adjusting the level of the lead input for a mix (i.e. the lead vocal for lead singers mix) to be sure that you don't over emphasize that input. When you mix it too far out front it might cause the singer to back off. Thus creating an issue for the FOH mix.
 
Re: Mixing IEM

Hi Kim,

a lot of good points have been made, just a few more from me:

1. multipath audio / combfiltering.
Big issue for singers, audio arrives instantly through the bone and a bit later through the earphones when using a digital desk or any other part of equipment that introduces latency.
No chance to hear this unless singing into the microphone.

Workarounds are singers who turn up their packs to 11 (obviously bad in the long term), just getting along with it (what most singers do) or using an analog desk at least for the vocals (hard to do but worth it).

No issue for perfomers not singing.

2. wireless dynamics / frequency response:
Biggest issue for drummers and keyboard players, it seems to me. I go wired whenever I can for these positions with great results.

3. ambience:
I tend to use more and more ambience microphones on the correct positions, so a stereo pair each on the drum and key risers, 2 to 4 on the stage front.
Everybody gets ambience that seems natural because the directions are correct. Obviously it's different for moving performers like singers.
Depending on the performer, heavy ambience riding can be useful. So a lot of ambience between the songs, much less during the songs. I try to have a DCA fader available for that cause everytime.
 
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