Money up front

J

Jimmy Hardin

Junior
Jan 29, 2013
314
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16
Hey guys , its been a while since i posted on here, but i have a question. I Worked a event the other day and when i got paid they was about a few dollars short. Ok this was on the 4th of july and i just got the other part today. I told them at the event that it wasn't right and they agreed to correct it. Ok, so i have been thinking about asking for my money up front before i unload anything. Now my question is this , What exactly is your version of up front. Is it receiving a check in the mail before the event even happens for the full amount or is it getting there at the event and waiting till someone comes up to you with the payment? The way i have been doing it is like this, I get there and set up and then during the day someone will come with the payment and every thing is ok then. What are some of the ways that you guys do things like that. I am kind of afraid to ask for it like that , that i wont get to do the job. Believe it or not i really really love what i do. :)~:-)~:smile:
 
Re: Money up front

Caleb Dick said:
Depends on the client. The safe answer is payment in full before the truck(s) are opened to start setup.

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Ok ,there are some That i have been working with for the past 5 or 6 years and we have a great business relationship and
i trust them, but the new clients, I don't really know because its the first time working for them, so are you saying that i need to do this just for new clients for the first time and then afterwards when i see that they will do as they say they will , kinda slack of on that with them and let them pay during the day?
 
Re: Money up front

Make sure you have a contract that spells out payment. I rarely get paid upfront and have never been not paid. And I've been doing this for over 20 years. But I almost always have a written agreement so if they don't pay,you can take them to small claims court. Plus,a written agreement spells out the terms of the agreement such as having the control to cancel the show due to rain,wind,lightning etc. You also need to spell out what your electrical needs are etc.
 
Re: Money up front

For new accounts we require 50% of our fee with the signed contract; the balance is due in cash or cashier's check before we unload the truck. Existing clients with positive track records, government clients and corporate clients with approved credit generally do not need to provide up-front money and may have very different terms (including Net 10 billing).
 
Re: Money up front

Everything is charged 2 days ahead of time to their credit card. We keep the card on file until after the event in case there are any damages or losses. Nothing is reserved on the calendar until we get payment information. So not only do we not unload until we're paid -- we don't load the trucks in the first place until we're paid.

We mostly started doing that because so many club and event promoters in Los Angeles think they're going to pay vendors out of receipts for the night... which works great until that one event where you don't sell enough tickets -- and now the vendors are screwed. I don't want to play that game. So I've lost those clients, and I'm happy with that.

As with everything -- policies have to be spelled out in writing clearly so that there's no question and you don't have to discuss it.

With long-time and trusted clients we'll sometimes make an exception and accept a check on site. But that's only with the very few that we've worked with many times and have regular personal contact (and people who've not even thought about abusing that privilege).
 
Re: Money up front

I am hugely NOT a fan of collecting payment AT an event. What other vendors are being paid that way? And then you have to deal with a check, or worse, cash that you have to keep track of. I'm horrible at that!

For most clients, pay is before the truck gets LOADED. Established long term clients I allow a check to be mailed after the event, but most of them I am now changing to send the check prior. Once I have money in hand, it's less of a headache on my part if something goes wrong and they choose not to pay.
 
Re: Money up front

Tim McCulloch said:
For new accounts we require 50% of our fee with the signed contract; the balance is due in cash or cashier's check before we unload the truck. Existing clients with positive track records, government clients and corporate clients with approved credit generally do not need to provide up-front money and may have very different terms (including Net 10 billing).
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Yes, this is pretty much the deal.

For most all new customers, I'm not going to reserve your date until I have at least 50% in hand. Then I need the other 50% before opening the truck... but as Tim said here, there are exceptions to every rule and it can depend on who the customer is and the type of business we are transacting as to when payments happen. Regardless, it is always spelled out contract style, even if it is via email with them agreeing to the terms.
 
Re: Money up front

If its not too much to ask I would love to see the verbiage on this. PM is fine if you are more comfortable with that :D~:-D~:grin:. I have a standard contract that I use if the client requests but I would love to compare what you have as it looks like yours covers a lot more of the specifics.

Randy Gartner said:
Make sure you have a contract that spells out payment. I rarely get paid upfront and have never been not paid. And I've been doing this for over 20 years. But I almost always have a written agreement so if they don't pay,you can take them to small claims court. Plus,a written agreement spells out the terms of the agreement such as having the control to cancel the show due to rain,wind,lightning etc. You also need to spell out what your electrical needs are etc.
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Re: Money up front

Ben Lawrence said:
If its not too much to ask I would love to see the verbiage on this. PM is fine if you are more comfortable with that :D~:-D~:grin:. I have a standard contract that I use if the client requests but I would love to compare what you have as it looks like yours covers a lot more of the specifics.
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Hey if you wouldn't mind and feel comfortable with it ,. I would love to see both of them Yours and his as well , If you dont mind? you can PM me.
 
Re: Money up front

Hi Guys,

Thanks for information.
I would like to ask you if some of you could be so kind and send me via PM contract template, please.
Thank you on advance.
 
Re: Money up front

Jan Tapak said:
Hi Guys,

Thanks for information.
I would like to ask you if some of you could be so kind and send me via PM contract template, please.
Thank you on advance.
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Make sure you consult with a lawyer regarding your contracts. It'll save you time and money later, if someone ever breaches it.
 
Re: Money up front

Tim McCulloch said:
For new accounts we require 50% of our fee with the signed contract; the balance is due in cash or cashier's check before we unload the truck. Existing clients with positive track records, government clients and corporate clients with approved credit generally do not need to provide up-front money and may have very different terms (including Net 10 billing).
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Our policy is very similar. I have remaining balance due upon arrival but often realistically don't see money until after we are unloaded and working. Reality is that the money person isn't always there at load in or has bigger issues to worry about. I'm usually cool with that as long as I don't get the shadey vibe. I for sure get money before sound check. I look at it as the 50% got them half a show, that is the halfway point. Also a shadey promoter will "find" your money real quick when a TM for a national act is threatening to call breach of contract and walk if sound check doesn't start. We've had this happen twice in 10 years and not only have the TM's been cool to us, they got on the promoter and got us cash in hand.

I do try hard to stay away from these situations by getting money immediately from new clients. Fortunately I mostly deal with straight up people, but I also am fine saying no to a gig if they are not comfortable with a deposit or paying in a timely manner. That says they don't have the money and you will be first to get screwed when the show bombs.

Nothing kills an otherwise great show day like hunting for your money, and it's even worse when you are dealing with hiccups AND hunting for your money.
 
Re: Money up front

Eric Lenasbunt said:
Our policy is very similar. I have remaining balance due upon arrival but often realistically don't see money until after we are unloaded and working. Reality is that the money person isn't always there at load in or has bigger issues to worry about. I'm usually cool with that as long as I don't get the shadey vibe. I for sure get money before sound check. I look at it as the 50% got them half a show, that is the halfway point. Also a shadey promoter will "find" your money real quick when a TM for a national act is threatening to call breach of contract and walk if sound check doesn't start. We've had this happen twice in 10 years and not only have the TM's been cool to us, they got on the promoter and got us cash in hand.

I do try hard to stay away from these situations by getting money immediately from new clients. Fortunately I mostly deal with straight up people, but I also am fine saying no to a gig if they are not comfortable with a deposit or paying in a timely manner. That says they don't have the money and you will be first to get screwed when the show bombs.

Nothing kills an otherwise great show day like hunting for your money, and it's even worse when you are dealing with hiccups AND hunting for your money.
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Yeah ,I recently got done that way. It was last year and i went to do a show. and got there and got all set up and was ready on time and we asked the lady when was i going to get paid and she said that the mayor had to sign off on the checks and he would be there at 2 o clock. i said ok fine i will wait till then, well 2 o clock came and no mayor 3 o clock still no mayor. it was around 4:30 or 5 when i got paid. I did more work looking for my money than doing the actual gig its self. ugh!!!! I havent even tried to contact them to want to work for them again.
 
Re: Money up front

Jimmy Hardin said:
Yeah ,I recently got done that way. It was last year and i went to do a show. and got there and got all set up and was ready on time and we asked the lady when was i going to get paid and she said that the mayor had to sign off on the checks and he would be there at 2 o clock. i said ok fine i will wait till then, well 2 o clock came and no mayor 3 o clock still no mayor. it was around 4:30 or 5 when i got paid. I did more work looking for my money than doing the actual gig its self. ugh!!!! I havent even tried to contact them to want to work for them again.
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I am much more comfortable with a municipality not paying up front, most of the ones I work with don't. I do have contracts with them though with terms. In my experience they usually don't pay on time, but they always pay.

Hip hop promoters however...
 
Re: Money up front

Eric Lenasbunt said:
I am much more comfortable with a municipality not paying up front, most of the ones I work with don't. I do have contracts with them though with terms. In my experience they usually don't pay on time, but they always pay.

Hip hop promoters however...
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Established business entities with steady cash flow almost always pay, and may be leary of paying in advance (it puts you in a position to stiff your client, and tells your client that you have concerns about their ability to pay). For these clients, a contract is typically the best approach (perhaps 50% in advance, balance Net 15, depending on your own cash flow).

For businesses that may not have steady cash flow, or those with a record of nonpayment, by all means ask for payment in advance. Again, you probably want a contract in hand that states your payment terms.

Note also that a signed contract in hand gives you some legal leverage to get paid in the event that the client stiffs you.
 
Re: Money up front

the way i have always done it , Was that when i got there and did the job at the end of the day i would get paid or maybe sometime before the end of day. Not really no certain time of day. The way i would handle it sometimes if i wanted to try and get the money earlier is that during a conversation i will say , hey do you want to go ahead and settle up with things. cause it looks like you are going to be busy and I know the last thing on your mind will be coming and paying people. lol .
 
Re: Money up front

We do not do a lot of one off events for new clients, but our policy for a new unknown is either a CC that we will charge day after show or 50% deposit check upon signing and balance due in hand day of show prior to event start but after we have set up. That way they could be sure that we have provided what we promised as they don't know us any better than we know them. No check, no turn on gear.

How willing and accommodating they were in getting the deposit and a check for the day of determined how aggressively we held to that policy. Have yet to get seriously burned in almost 20 years.

With Square app, taking a CC on site is even easier.
 
Re: Money up front

Shawn Keck said:
We do not do a lot of one off events for new clients, but our policy for a new unknown is either a CC that we will charge day after show or 50% deposit check upon signing and balance due in hand day of show prior to event start but after we have set up. That way they could be sure that we have provided what we promised as they don't know us any better than we know them. No check, no turn on gear.

How willing and accommodating they were in getting the deposit and a check for the day of determined how aggressively we held to that policy. Have yet to get seriously burned in almost 20 years.

With Square app, taking a CC on site is even easier.
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Wait til the promoter contests the charge and your entire Square account is locked.. AFTER they've swept the money out of your account.
 
Re: Money up front

Tim McCulloch said:
Wait til the promoter contests the charge and your entire Square account is locked.. AFTER they've swept the money out of your account.
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This is good advice. If promoters have a way of screwing the sound company and not getting caught for it, they will definitely do it. I find that requiring a check in the amount of %50 of total mailed to the business address at least 7 days prior to the event generally stops promoters from any thoughts of CC scams. In the case of events where I am unsure of the client and they are unsure of me, after soundcheck I require an additional check for the second %50. The "I will get cash for you in a minute" line gets really old during a show.
 
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