MP3 vs WAV

D

Daniel Ellis

Freshman
Mar 9, 2011
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0
What does everyone here consider an acceptable bitrate for ripped music from a CD?

ITunes downloads songs at 256 kbps which to the people ive found on google seems to be as good as you ever need.

Ive always wanted to use nothing but WAV files for tuning rigs.. So when I rip a CD to my laptop I use the highest quality settings available at 44.1kHz which comes out to be 1411 kbps. Since CD's are 44.1kHz I wouldn't gain anything by ripping at a higher sample rate correct?

I would like to have smaller files if i could, but I dont know how small I can go..
 
Re: MP3 vs WAV

As long as you're not planning to transcode to something else later, I've found 192kbps MP3s to be perfectly adequate, and they have more fidelity than I've ever been able to reproduce through a PA.
 
Re: MP3 vs WAV

Yeah, I have found that MP3 technology has come a long way since 2002 when I started ripping CD's and such. Usually when buying music online I shoot for a minimum of about 192kbps, but usually shoot for 224-256kbps and that is what I rip CD's at as well.

~Phil
 
Re: MP3 vs WAV

WAV doesn't have support for tagging, so organizing them could get messy. I use FLAC, which is the Free Lossless Audio Codec, so it sounds the same as WAV but takes up about 1/2 to 3/4 the space. It supports tagging and can be easily transcoded to mp3 for portable devices, since most of them don't support FLAC.

Also know that the bitrate isn't the final judge of quality. A poor quality 320k rip might sound worse than a high quality 128k rip. It's all up to the encoder. And, AFAIK, iTunes doesn't use mp3, it uses AAC, which is a version of mp4.

Additionally, for ripping a CD, the 'highest quality settings' are probably not correct. I've seen ripped music with a sampling rate of 48k, which is obviously impossible since it came from a CD, and it only happens because the ripper picked the highest numbers they could. Then the encoder does sample rate conversion and it ends up sounding really, really bad.

For a CD, correct settings are 44100Hz, 16-bit, stereo WAV, or the same in FLAC.

Why not rip everything to FLAC? Lots of music is even available for download, paid or not, in FLAC. A 1TB hard drive is less than $100 these days, and you'd be pressed to fill it.

PS- I can absolutely hear the difference between any mp3 and a good WAV or FLAC file.
 
Re: MP3 vs WAV

Daniel,

If you are using iTunes, which can rip to AAC (MP4) and has a very good encoder, I find 256K AAC to be indistinguishable from CD quality (and about 1/5 the size) in any situation where I have had the opportunity to compare the two.
 
Re: MP3 vs WAV

Thanks.. That's exactly what I was looking for. So if I am correct, 256K AAC is how it comes when you download from ITunes right? I've been avoiding buying music on Itunes because I thought it wasn't good enough quality.
 
Re: MP3 vs WAV

On Itunes what does Variable Bit Rate encoding do? And High Efficiency encoding? Do I want those turned on or off or does it make a difference?
 
Re: MP3 vs WAV

Daniel Ellis said:
On Itunes what does Variable Bit Rate encoding do? And High Efficiency encoding? Do I want those turned on or off or does it make a difference?
Click to expand...

Encoders have so many options you could spend weeks reading about them. Essentially, VBR adapts the bitrate to what is going on in the song at that particular time. Figure, higher frequency sounds need a higher bitrate to be reproduced properly, so on things like cymbal crashes the bitrate will be dynamically increased compared to the rest of the song.

As a rule, if there is a selection for encoding quality, pick the absolutely highest one you can. The only thing it will cost you is CPU time, and the results will be far better. I also bet that iTunes doesn't offer all the AAC encoder options that it could, since the general population can probably barely handle what it offers as it is.
 
Re: MP3 vs WAV

Steve Ferreira said:
I also use Foobar to play my music. It plays virtually every format......AAC, WAV, MP3, FLAC etc.......
Click to expand...

I haven't used that one, but Winamp is amazing, and even works on my Droid.

I click 'send to Droid' in Winamp and the songs I want automatically get transcoded to mp3 (if they are FLAC, per my settings) and sent to my phone, wirelessly. Sweet is the only word for it.
 
Re: MP3 vs WAV

Silas Pradetto said:
And, AFAIK, iTunes doesn't use mp3, it uses AAC, which is a version of mp4.
Click to expand...

I'm looking at the Windows version of iTunes right now. It is version 9. Most likely not the latest version, as I have better things to do than sit and update my software all day long.
Anyhow, under the Edit/Preferences and on the Default tab, click on Import Settings. From there you can change the default encoding from AAC to AIFF, Apple Lossless Encoder, MP3, and WAV. Also the bitrate can be adjusted from 128 to 192, or up to 320 in the custom settings.

I have no idea how good this MP3 encoder "sounds", but I just wanted to say that it is there.
 
iTunes and various codecs

Chris Davis said:
I'm looking at the Windows version of iTunes right now. It is version 9. Most likely not the latest version, as I have better things to do than sit and update my software all day long.
Anyhow, under the Edit/Preferences and on the Default tab, click on Import Settings. From there you can change the default encoding from AAC to AIFF, Apple Lossless Encoder, MP3, and WAV. Also the bitrate can be adjusted from 128 to 192, or up to 320 in the custom settings.

I have no idea how good this MP3 encoder "sounds", but I just wanted to say that it is there.
Click to expand...

The iTunes Store only uses 256 AAC (early on it was 128 AAC). iTunes the software has always supported multiple codecs and multiple bitrates.

Mac
 
Re: iTunes and various codecs

mackerr said:
The iTunes Store only uses 256 AAC (early on it was 128 AAC). iTunes the software has always supported multiple codecs and multiple bitrates.

Mac
Click to expand...

LOL I didn't read through the whole thread first that time.
 
Re: MP3 vs WAV

Daniel Ellis said:
I've been avoiding buying music on Itunes because I thought it wasn't good enough quality.
Click to expand...

I believe the bitrate is limited by bandwidth on the internet (for music downloads) and hard-drive space (for storage). Right now everyone says 256 is great, but in a few years when hard-drives are bigger and modems are faster, people will start to say that 256 was good, but it's just about perfect at 512 kbps. It won't stop until we get back to straight 1411 kbps, uncompressed wav files. So I buy it on CD and Rip it at 256 (or 320) for now. In five years, when we move to 100TB hard-drives and gigabit internet, I can rip it again at 512kbps, or whatever bit-rate people are suggesting by then.
 
Re: MP3 vs WAV

Lossless (WAV, FLAC, SHN, AIFF, Apple Lossless) are obviously all the best for audio purposes. But then, it largely depends on the source. Garbage in, garbage out right? I've used a million and one different encoders over the years and all have their pro's and cons. Just download LAME and encode to alt-preset-standard or alt-preset-extreme and forget about it. To actually hear the difference you would need a $10k pair of studio monitors and an anecohic chamber. Obviously this is for general use/playback. If you are doing archival work use something lossless like FLAC or Apple Lossless. My actual CDs are my "archival" copy. I purchase most throwaway music from iTunes, but collect the collectible stuff on CD and just rip to previously stated LAME settings.

One thing I will make an exception for (and this is generalizing) any type of rock, alternative, punk that contains heavy cymbal use I find that nothing except 44.1k 16bit PCM audio will do (or some lossless variant). However, much of this music has been compressed to oblivion and it won't matter either way... but for the 1% of record producers that seem to really know their shit, what you choose to store it in will make a difference on playback. So you can take one of two approaches. Pick the best sounding storage format and put everything in that... or cherry pick the stuff that needs it for you to be happy.
 
Re: MP3 vs WAV

I held out for quite a while and dragged a big case of CD's around through 2009. I have most everything pulled intoi Itunes at 256K AAC. Its not perfect, but it means having a great deal at hand. Being able to pull up a cut of music at a whim has maent a lot happier clients. Getting that last 5% out of the PA that only I every notice? Not as much. Do I still have a sinlge CD on my favorites with me. Yes.
 
Re: MP3 vs WAV

Everything in my iTunes is some version of aac or mp3.... except the material that i use to tune with. I have used the same pink noise for almost 10 years and the same Knopfler tracks and I just imported them as wave files. The "tune" playlist has roughly 15 wav files in it- not enough to even put a dent in the iPod. The iPhone has a few selected playlists- Tune, Pre-Show, Set Change, Post show. It only gets used as a back-up source in case I misplace the iPod or I have packed the computer away during the last song scramble to secure expensive easy to walk away items.

All other music is just playback and I couldn't care less what version it is as it's in the triple digits.
 
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