Nuendo Live and Yamaha Console Connector

Re: Nuendo Live and Yamaha Console Connector

Well this is very interesting but more than a bit confusing. The IP that is settable in the control panel in the screen shot is specifically for the editor control port AFAIK and has no relationship to the Dante networking. I could certainly see how setting the computer to an IP in the subnet range of the Dante network addresses might improve the operation of the CL extension but I'm not sure I see how the control port should care whats happening on the Dante network or why the computer with the extension connected to the Dante network should care whats happening on the control port. I will have to try this as soon as I'm back in the shop. Thanks for continuing to dig into this Andy..




Andrew Broughton said:
Anyone still struggling with trying to get Nuendo Live controlled by the CL/QL console, I have the solution.
Set your console's network address to something in the same subnet as Dante (169.254.x.x) and your computer to DHCP and it just works.
The last digits seem to make no difference.

No need to connect the console's "control" network connection to the Dante network, BTW.

Having the console at the factory default (192.168.0.128) will for some reason change the Nuendo computer to that same subnet, causing the controls to stop working.

Another solution is to use a fixed ip on your computer within the Dante subnet (169.254) but it's always easier to keep your computer on DHCP of course. Changing the console IP will allow you to do that.

View attachment 11767
Click to expand...
 
Re: Nuendo Live and Yamaha Console Connector

The console is sending and receiving control signals (probably MIDI over Ethernet) to make the Nuendo control panel work on the console. That is likely why it wants to be on the same subnet.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a bug. Maybe I'll mention it to Marc Lopez...
 
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Re: Nuendo Live and Yamaha Console Connector

Ok, so now after getting it connected and working, I went into the network setup on the console and changed it back to 192.168.0.128 and so far it seems to be holding.
It seems to be a bit fussy, and I'm not sure exactly what makes it work or not.
Be good if they put a little confidence tester in Nuendo to let you know that the settings are correct...


Sent from my iPhone
 
Re: Nuendo Live and Yamaha Console Connector

Andrew, any possibility that this issue is controlled by the switch that the Dante network is running on? Or the wireless access point connected to the control port?

Has anyone tried this by using an actual router rather than just a switch?
 
Re: Nuendo Live and Yamaha Console Connector

I'd like to know where Dante gets its IP addresses. It works without any switch in line. I have a switch, but it's not supplying any addresses.
When you hook up any DHCP computer to the Dante network, Dante gives it an IP. In my case, the console was overriding that IP somehow, which is strange, because the console doesn't have a DHCP server either.
I don't think you're supposed to use a router (or DHCP server) with Dante. Audinate recommends that you let Dante supply the addresses, although you can set fixed IPs if you like. That would be another solution, but Dante on it's own seems to be rock-solid so I'm not really interested in changing those settings.

I do have a wireless router connected to the console, but my computer is not connected to that router, either wired or wireless. The only connection to the console is via the Dante (wired) connections.

Still a mystery how it's all supposed to work and why it's unreliable.
 
Re: Nuendo Live and Yamaha Console Connector

Andrew Broughton said:
Anyone still struggling with trying to get Nuendo Live controlled by the CL/QL console, I have the solution.
Set your console's network address to something in the same subnet as Dante (169.254.x.x) and your computer to DHCP and it just works.
The last digits seem to make no difference.

No need to connect the console's "control" network connection to the Dante network, BTW.

Having the console at the factory default (192.168.0.128) will for some reason change the Nuendo computer to that same subnet, causing the controls to stop working.

Another solution is to use a fixed ip on your computer within the Dante subnet (169.254) but it's always easier to keep your computer on DHCP of course. Changing the console IP will allow you to do that.

View attachment 11767


Sent from my iPhone
Click to expand...


The 169.254.foo.bar address range is the link-local address range, and should not be in use if the network has been configured (although Windows seems to like to hang onto link-local addresses for far longer than it should). In general, devices get their IP address in one of hte following ways (in order of precedence)
1) Statically assigned
2) DHCP
3) Link-local

I'd be very suprised if Dante follows a different scheme.

Additionally, mapping a DHCP-assigned or static IP address to the same interface that has a link-local address assigned tends to be bad practice and can yield unpredictable results. I'd probably try setting up the network with either all statically-assigned IP addresses, or with IP addresses all assigned by a DHCP server, (mixing and matching IP address assignment methods is another way to get yourself in trouble) and see if that improves matters.
 
Re: Nuendo Live and Yamaha Console Connector

More information on link-local addresses: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3927

Some language of note from that RFC:
IPv4 Link-Local addresses and their dynamic configuration have
profound implications upon applications which use them. This is
discussed in Section 6. Many applications fundamentally assume that
addresses of communicating peers are routable, relatively unchanging
and unique. These assumptions no longer hold with IPv4 Link-Local
addresses, or a mixture of Link-Local and routable IPv4 addresses.

Therefore while many applications will work properly with IPv4 Link-
Local addresses, or a mixture of Link-Local and routable IPv4
addresses, others may do so only after modification, or will exhibit
reduced or partial functionality.

In some cases it may be infeasible for the application to be modified
to operate under such conditions.

IPv4 Link-Local addresses should therefore only be used where stable,
routable addresses are not available (such as on ad hoc or isolated
networks) or in controlled situations where these limitations and
their impact on applications are understood and accepted. This
document does not recommend that IPv4 Link-Local addresses and
routable addresses be configured simultaneously on the same
interface.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Nuendo Live and Yamaha Console Connector

So, I don't seem to be having the connection issues I did in the past, but unfortunately, Nuendo Live is all but unusable, and that's a shame. I love the integration with the CL/QL, and I'd really like it to work, but I get dropouts, clicks, pops when recording with Nuendo Live via Dante.
I've tried lowering the bit depth to 16, maxing out the latency/buffers, nothing seems to fix it. I've tried it on 2 computers, one older, one very new, both with SSDs, and very optimized Windows installs and drivers.
Using these same computers, with 24 or 32 bit depths, default buffer/latency settings on Reaper produces no dropouts, clicks, pops or anything, perfect recordings every time. (24 - 32 tracks).
It seems that the recording engine of Reaper is simply superior and Nuendo Live is simply unusable.
I'm not new to multitrack recording at all and am very aware of what things affect recording quality. It's just really surprising to me that Nuendo Live is as poor as it is at recording multitracks. Especially for it's hefty pricetag. I find it hard to believe that Yamaha doesn't address the problems with this software when it's a (small) selling feature of the consoles.
Disappointing.
 
Re: Nuendo Live and Yamaha Console Connector

Interesting. I wonder what experience others have had with it. Could be something particular to the Windows version of Nuendo Live. I don't believe the issue is clocking as I know and have heard clock errors, although that could be part of it I guess. The main issue is dropouts and glitches.
 
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The new CL firmware (V4.10) adds the ability to set a separate IP address to allow the CL console to control other devices. I assume that this is the address that it uses to control Nuendo Live software, since as soon as I set it to obtain an IP address from DHCP, I suddenly got all the track names and colours in Nuendo Live, and I could remote record from the console. I've been trying for almost a year to get this working... now I know why I couldn't. The CL consoles have 3 IP addresses: one for the Dante network, one for remote control with StageMIx, etc, and another for the console to remote control other devices! It's really confusing... Yamaha / Steinberg should add something in their documentation to clarify this.

As a side-note, the Yamaha Rio devices also have a 2nd IP address to allow them to be remote controlled from R Remote software. This is set using the DIP switches. It's also not very clear from the documentation Yamaha provides.
 
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