POLL: Avid

POLL: Avid

  • SC48 with Stage48

    Votes: 13 50.0%

  • S3L System

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Yes I know I'm a Jerk But I Think You Should Wait For Some Other Magical Console

    Votes: 13 50.0%
  • Total voters
    26
  • Poll closed .
J

Jason Misterka

Sophomore
Mar 10, 2011
158
0
16
So we may be buying another Avid console. We have a Profile and an SC48.

While I personally enjoy our Midas PRO consoles, our most requested desk by BE are still the SC48. So I am considering another SC48.

But I wanted to give the Avid S3L system one last long look. As this console needs to meet riders and make BE happy, my guess is the SC48 is still the way to go. What do you think? When I was considering the SC48 vs other options last year, the S3L wasn't yet released and no-one knew what may be coming to replace the SC48. And maybe there is something else clever in the pipeline but I feel like we need to buy it before this season begins...

Thanks for your input.
 
Re: POLL: Avid

I would go with the SC48 with remote snake. For my tastes, the SC48 surface is "just big enough" to be comfortable to mix on and feel like a "real" console, especially in a festival situation. It's also just small enough that it's easy to tote around for smaller events.

I haven't dug too far into the S3L, but the nice thing about Avid is the uniformity between console operating systems, so that's not much to have to consider. For the market that you are in, which is probably the same as me, a pair of decent size matching 48ch consoles is a nice package to have.
 
Re: POLL: Avid

While not my favorite console personally (like that matters), the SC48 is still probably the best shoe in for mid level rider acceptance.
And, god knows I've been wrong plenty before, but I don't think I see the new Avid surface taking over as the next big thing with touring acts and for festival one offs.
 
Re: POLL: Avid

Jason Misterka said:
So we may be buying another Avid console. We have a Profile and an SC48.

While I personally enjoy our Midas PRO consoles, our most requested desk by BE are still the SC48. So I am considering another SC48.

But I wanted to give the Avid S3L system one last long look. As this console needs to meet riders and make BE happy, my guess is the SC48 is still the way to go. What do you think? When I was considering the SC48 vs other options last year, the S3L wasn't yet released and no-one knew what may be coming to replace the SC48. And maybe there is something else clever in the pipeline but I feel like we need to buy it before this season begins...

Thanks for your input.
Click to expand...

Hi Jason-

If you need to make BEs happy *now*, then buy another SC48. I haven't seen an S3L in the wild yet nor have I touched one at a trade show and don't have a user-based opinion. I'm not sure, though, how the S3L is going to work out for one-offs as the darn thing is so compact (including the i/o) that almost any act with a trailer behind a van can have room for it (although we're currently seeing X32/S16 in those situations).

We offer Profile/MixRack and SC48 along with other digital mixers. The Venue series desks are the most requested and I expect that to remain so for at least a couple more years. The issues will be changes to the software as we get >v4 and the changing plugin infrastructure.

The Digital Crystal Ball doesn't do too good receiving predictions from Daly City, but I'd be very surprised if Avid didn't have another console or 2 up their sleeve.
 
Re: POLL: Avid

Tim McCulloch said:
The Digital Crystal Ball doesn't do too good receiving predictions from Daly City, but I'd be very surprised if Avid didn't have another console or 2 up their sleeve.
Click to expand...


The Venue consoles have traditionally followed along the lines of the studio control surface releases, with them being a tweaked version of the studio controller tech.

Given that the Icon consoles have been EOL'd (studio equivalent to venue consoles), the writing is on the wall for the existing Venue desks too (D Show, Profile, SC48). The technology in those desks is about 10 years old now.

This means we will likely see within the next year or so a live version of the Avid S6 with similar customizable packages (the S6 is a modular design that can cover quite a few intended applications and allows quite a bit of a la carte tweaking re your hardware choices), and possibly more designs in the "S" line. Based on this I would expect they can offer a range of options in the same cost realm as the SC48, Profile, and DShow currently occupy.

The video below should paint a pretty good picture of the general concept these new desks will likely follow.

 
Last edited:
Re: POLL: Avid

Helge Dr. Bentsen said:
Personally, my least favorite board is the SC48. It's the only desk I work slower on for each time I use it.

But if it makes you money, it's the sensible thing to buy.
Click to expand...


I don't entirely disagree with you, for me it still doesn't feel natural to mix on and I have used it for several years now. But on days like next Wednesday, where I only have one show and I gave the BE the choice of ANY desk in our inventory, he chose the SC48 over the Midas PRO and even the Profile.

Of course he may chose it over the Midas because he has a show file, but why over the Profile? No matter, we have one...

Jason
 
Re: POLL: Avid

Justice C. Bigler said:
I guess I'll be the jerk here and say get some other magical console. Or just buy a Yamaha.
Click to expand...


If I was using public money, I would :)

I'm sure the CL consoles are good. But they cost more than I feel I can justify for this purchase. Probably 10-15K more, and what do you gain? There was a time when we had to have Yamaha for BE with show files. Now everyone has a file for Avid. CL consoles are showing up on the list of acceptable consoles on riders, but not "MUST BE YAMAHA ___, NO EXCEPTIONS".

If I personally were mixing theatre proper as you do, then yes, an SC48 would probably suck. I have mix several symphony orchestras now on Midas PRO 2, where I used to use Yamaha M7. After the first date, using the pops groups and DCA spill things were really happy and cozy. But I don't think I would like to do that on the SC48.

Jason
 
Re: POLL: Avid

Tom Manchester said:
Another advantage to a second sc48 is streamlining your inventory. You'll have an indentical spare for your existing sc48, and a pretty reasonable replacement for your full size profile. I don't think the S3L would fill that need as its a bit too small.
Click to expand...

Tom -

I agree.

There is also something very appealing to having limiting the number of consoles my techs have to learn as well. I know some companies that send techs out without full knowledge of the ins and outs of each console. For some companies that is the rule and not the exception, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do, especially the odd day when you have four or five events and are bringing techs in from every which way.

Jason
 
Re: POLL: Avid

Chris Johnson said:
Don't forget, the S3L wont run any waves plugins.

thats a deal breaker for me and a lot of other touring engineers...
Click to expand...


Yeah, we do now have a large Waves bundle installed, though the BE has to have their own USB stick to utilize it. Some of my techs with studios have their own as well.

But is there any issue with newer plugins (not Waves) going to the new format and not making versions that will work for Venue consoles anymore?

Jason
 
Re: POLL: Avid

Jeff Babcock said:
The Venue consoles have traditionally followed along the lines of the studio control surface releases, with them being a tweaked version of the studio controller tech.

Given that the Icon consoles have been EOL'd (studio equivalent to venue consoles), the writing is on the wall for the existing Venue desks too (D Show, Profile, SC48). The technology in those desks is about 10 years old now.

This means we will likely see within the next year or so a live version of the Avid S6 with similar customizable packages (the S6 is a modular design that can cover quite a few intended applications and allows quite a bit of a la carte tweaking re your hardware choices), and possibly more designs in the "S" line. Based on this I would expect they can offer a range of options in the same cost realm as the SC48, Profile, and DShow currently occupy.

The video below should paint a pretty good picture of the general concept these new desks will likely follow.

Click to expand...


And this was what I was waiting for a year ago when deciding which way to go, before the S3L arrived.

Would you imagine that there would be decent $20-25K options immediately or would they start big and shrink after a few years like everyone seems inclined to do?

Jason
 
Re: POLL: Avid

Tim McCulloch said:
Hi Jason-

If you need to make BEs happy *now*, then buy another SC48. I haven't seen an S3L in the wild yet nor have I touched one at a trade show and don't have a user-based opinion. I'm not sure, though, how the S3L is going to work out for one-offs as the darn thing is so compact (including the i/o) that almost any act with a trailer behind a van can have room for it (although we're currently seeing X32/S16 in those situations).

We offer Profile/MixRack and SC48 along with other digital mixers. The Venue series desks are the most requested and I expect that to remain so for at least a couple more years. The issues will be changes to the software as we get >v4 and the changing plugin infrastructure.

The Digital Crystal Ball doesn't do too good receiving predictions from Daly City, but I'd be very surprised if Avid didn't have another console or 2 up their sleeve.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is why I'm stuck.

I don "NEED" to do anything "RIGHT NOW" as we already have Profile & SC48 etc. But I would like to move some older consoles from inventory (M7CL and LS9) in order to rotate inventory and before we loose any further resale value on those guys. They are still very usable consoles.

On the other hand, I've been waiting on Avid for 2 years to do something people cared about and I don't really feel like waiting another season, it would be helpful to cover the gigs this season.

On the third hand, why buy a new SC48 & Stage48 that will be less requested in two years once a new console comes out.

And this is what gives me a headache... I wish I could just provide good audio day in and day out and not have to concern myself with what some fly-by-night just-off-a-club-tour mixing dude reads is the coolest new item in the glossy magazine, I mean website tabloid.... Anyway, I'm just whining and I'm half kidding as it is. Things never change much.

Jason
 
Re: POLL: Avid

Jason Misterka said:
Yeah, this is why I'm stuck.

I don "NEED" to do anything "RIGHT NOW" as we already have Profile & SC48 etc. But I would like to move some older consoles from inventory (M7CL and LS9) in order to rotate inventory and before we loose any further resale value on those guys. They are still very usable consoles.

On the other hand, I've been waiting on Avid for 2 years to do something people cared about and I don't really feel like waiting another season, it would be helpful to cover the gigs this season.

On the third hand, why buy a new SC48 & Stage48 that will be less requested in two years once a new console comes out.

And this is what gives me a headache... I wish I could just provide good audio day in and day out and not have to concern myself with what some fly-by-night just-off-a-club-tour mixing dude reads is the coolest new item in the glossy magazine, I mean website tabloid.... Anyway, I'm just whining and I'm half kidding as it is. Things never change much.

Jason
Click to expand...

You could see if there is a used SC48 out there. Might not come with the stage box but would replace the LS9 or M7CL and it would hold it's resale value. Sinks less $$ into it. Grain of salt, though.
 
Re: POLL: Avid

Max Warasila said:
You could see if there is a used SC48 out there. Might not come with the stage box but would replace the LS9 or M7CL and it would hold it's resale value. Sinks less $$ into it. Grain of salt, though.
Click to expand...

True. It is rare that I see them pop up for sale used, though. At least that's a good thing :)
 
Re: POLL: Avid

Jason Misterka said:
And this was what I was waiting for a year ago when deciding which way to go, before the S3L arrived.

Would you imagine that there would be decent $20-25K options immediately or would they start big and shrink after a few years like everyone seems inclined to do?

Jason
Click to expand...

I can't say for sure, but based on the route they went with S6 on the studio side there were multiple price points depending on chosen configuration, so it is likely that they will do the same with live products.

The S6 is separated like this:

M10 host chassis

  • Up to 9 modules
  • Up to 24 faders
  • 5 knobs per channel
  • No Display Module support
  • 8-, 16-, and 24-fader configurations

​
M40 host chassis

  • Up to 41 modules
  • Up to 64 faders
  • 5 or 9 knobs per channel
  • Support for Display Modules
  • Fully configurable


These products start at about 22K for a system based on the M10 chassis, which should likely indicate a live product falling into the price range you mention.
 
Re: POLL: Avid

Personally, If I could avoid it, I wouldn't buy any Avid consoles right now.

The TDM architecture is on its way out, and whether its 6 months or 18 months away, there is almost certainly a new Venue on the horizon.

Sub hire for the mean time?
 
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