Presonous 24.4.2 going full gain suddenly

Re: Presonous 24.4.2 going full gain suddenly

Exactly the same problem i had with my two presonus mixers. in the middle of the show audio would go up to full volume and blast fully distorted sound or sometimes noise. my friends had same issues and we all sold our prsonus mixers. we also had to replace faders all the time. presonus mixers are unreliable and i would not use them for any show.
 
Re: Presonous 24.4.2 going full gain suddenly

Dick Rees said:
Greg, et al...

I would request everyone posting reports of digital console glitches to include the power source and the presence or absence of line voltage regulation. This in addition to a thorough assessment of the firmware will help in the long run. IM(limited)E, voltage sags, spikes or fluctuations do seem to affect digital gear performance. I first encountered it while using a MIDI rig for performance and I suspect that voltage variations can masquerade as "commands" in the digital realm.

Or not...

DR
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If, for example, the receiving component is expecting 0-2V to be 0 and 3-5V to be 1 then an internal voltage drop causing the transmitting component to send out a high signal of under 3V will be unpredictable at best. Similarly if there is something wrong narrowing the voltage range for low signal you may get a 1 when you wanted a 0. That signal that was supposed to be 1111 1111 may end up 1000 0011 (or the other way around) with even an internal power glitch lasting a fraction of a second. For things that are a continuous stream of repeating data (such as DMX) it is usually self correcting and some protocols have error correction built in. But if what comes out is a one time command or you are using a system with a low refresh rate then the mistake can become very noticeable.

Combine that with other software/design issues and it is hard to believe there aren't more problems with digital consoles not plugged into good UPS's. Good power supply design will get you pretty far but there is only so much you can compensate for on a lower priced piece of equipment before it becomes an expensive piece of equipment.
 
Re: Presonous 24.4.2 going full gain suddenly

Juergen Riemann said:
Exactly the same problem i had with my two presonus mixers. in the middle of the show audio would go up to full volume and blast fully distorted sound or sometimes noise. my friends had same issues and we all sold our prsonus mixers. we also had to replace faders all the time. presonus mixers are unreliable and i would not use them for any show.
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Thanks for the reply Juergen. So are you saying the faders are the source of the issue or is there a separate issue that warranted the fader replacement?

Thanks.
 
Re: Presonous 24.4.2 going full gain suddenly

Jared Bartimus said:
If, for example, the receiving component is expecting 0-2V to be 0 and 3-5V to be 1 then an internal voltage drop causing the transmitting component to send out a high signal of under 3V will be unpredictable at best. Similarly if there is something wrong narrowing the voltage range for low signal you may get a 1 when you wanted a 0. That signal that was supposed to be 1111 1111 may end up 1000 0011 (or the other way around) with even an internal power glitch lasting a fraction of a second.
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The low-voltage sections of electronic circuits have their own regulators. UPS or voltage regulation of the incoming AC will do nothing to affect this until the input is so low that the device won't power up. Besides, all modern equipment uses switching power supplies which are good from 90-240 volts, so the incoming voltage is of no consequence.

But if what comes out is a one time command or you are using a system with a low refresh rate then the mistake can become very noticeable.
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What are you talking about?

Combine that with other software/design issues and it is hard to believe there aren't more problems with digital consoles not plugged into good UPS's. Good power supply design will get you pretty far but there is only so much you can compensate for on a lower priced piece of equipment before it becomes an expensive piece of equipment.
Click to expand...
A UPS is good to help with systems not rebooting when they lose power, but I don't believe AC regulation is of any value to systems utilizing switching power supplies. Surge protection, sure, to protect your investment should a power surge happen.
 
Re: Presonous 24.4.2 going full gain suddenly

I also think all reports of digital console glitches should have highly detailed reports of how the ac feeding them was handled. There are too many factors to consider. The posters of these reports should at least say what model UPS they use, or if not, what state mental hospital they just broke out of... or- the story of thier head injury that they somehow survived.

There are lots of reports of digital console issues due to the cheaper ps commonly used the mid to low end units. if your ups can't supply the right voltage fast enough, get one that can switchover in less than 10ns. (Or less)

Andrew Broughton said:
The low-voltage sections of electronic circuits have their own regulators. UPS or voltage regulation of the incoming AC will do nothing to affect this until the input is so low that the device won't power up. Besides, all modern equipment uses switching power supplies which are good from 90-240 volts, so the incoming voltage is of no consequence.

What are you talking about?

A UPS is good to help with systems not rebooting when they lose power, but I don't believe AC regulation is of any value to systems utilizing switching power supplies. Surge protection, sure, to protect your investment should a power surge happen.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Presonous 24.4.2 going full gain suddenly

Dick Rees said:
I think maybe it's short-shorthand for microSec, not nano-second.

An in-line UPS has zero time switchover because it's already "on battery"....I think.
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While it's silly to argue about what somebody else meant, the logic behind my mSec (milli-seconds) suggestion is because conventional 50Hz / 60Hz mains refresh PS caps at a 10 mSec or 8 mSec rate. An always-on UPS obviously has no switchover time. One could look for any deviation from a sinusoidal mains waveform but that would likely generate many false alarms from common waveform distortion.

Of course speculating and making sweeping generalities about PS design is hard enough for people in the know. I can mainly speculate about how I might approach this... but I won't.

JR
 
Re: Presonous 24.4.2 going full gain suddenly

Yeah sorry, that was just a typo... I mest that as ms not ns.

The x32's got a switching ps and it's been tested to 'act weird' if it gets less than 90v for more than 20ms.

Some PS are just built better to be able to handle little drops like that, they usually seem to come with consoles that cost over 5-6K it seems...

John Roberts said:
While it's silly to argue about what somebody else meant, the logic behind my mSec (milli-seconds) suggestion is because conventional 50Hz / 60Hz mains refresh PS caps at a 10 mSec or 8 mSec rate. An always-on UPS obviously has no switchover time. One could look for any deviation from a sinusoidal mains waveform but that would likely generate many false alarms from common waveform distortion.

Of course speculating and making sweeping generalities about PS design is hard enough for people in the know. I can mainly speculate about how I might approach this... but I won't.

JR
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