Price check in Aisle 5

R

Rob Bernstein

Freshman
Oct 23, 2013
66
1
6
Framingham, MA
So I'm curious what other areas of the country are getting for a bar-band PA rental with an engineer.
I do mostly weekend work, 200-300 seaters, 5-piece cover bands mostly.
I have what I consider to be a nice PA:
2 x JBL PRX418S subs powered by a QSC PL3402 (bridged) on each one
2 x JBL PRX 415M tops powered by a QSC GX7
Powered floor monitors (JBL PRX612M x 2, Mackie SRM550 x 2, EV ELX112P x 2)
Soundcraft si Expression 2 board with 32-input Stagebox
dbx DriveRack PA+, Shure, Sennheiser, EV, Audix mics
I've been doing live sound (and recording) for over 20-years. I'm not a newbie.
I get $300 a night, and based on how long I am "on the job" (getting to the venue 3 hours early), I don't feel that is outrageous.
Most of the bands I work with are happy with what I do and hire me regularly.
I just had a guy try and hire me for a bar gig and when he balked at $300, told me the "other" sound companies he talked to charge $200.
I passed on it, and truthfully, for the amount of work involved (and the amount invested in gear), it just isn't worth it to me.
What do you guys see out there for this type of gig?
Thanks for any feedback (sorry, bad pun)
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

After years of running other peoples PA's or bunched together systems made from their stuff and my stuff, I've finally put together my own (complete) PA this year. Before it was just a hobby, but now I actually have a business. I rent my JBL PRX system, including my 30 years of live sound mixing experience, for $250 / gig, depending on conditions. After a year of this I hope to up my price to the $300 mark - we'll see....

I have a new account with a 6-piece Beatles band and they've booked me for the summer at that price, which works fine for me. The setup is actually very easy, but they are a 6-piece so I have 6 monitors to wire (all powered). I use the Mackie DL1608. I include a wash of 4 lights - always on. So far, the band likes me and it's going well.

I still work with my Hair Metal band at $100 / night. They do not have any monitors (all in-ear) and I typically only need to bring my PRX115 tops. Plus they rock, sound good, and it's very satisfying to mix them. But they will be second choice to the Beatles band.

My next plan is to pick up some wireless mic's & lapel mic's, and rent to weddings and/or speaking events. I also hold open the possibility of becoming a wedding DJ, but I have a long way to go for that gig.

All aside, this is still a hobby, and I have a full-time day job that actually pays the bills.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

Hi Rob,
I do this for a living. This would typically be a ~$1500 job for me. Here is how I get there: (Freight, Equipment Rental and Labor) Starting with freight (truck load time, travel time and vehicle expense) at $50 - 150, depending on travel time and chance of parking tickets. (Boston or Cambridge events, freight is $150 unless there's a guarantee of free, safe parking - then it drops to $100. Even in Framingham (where my shop is) it's $50 if no chance of a ticket. Equipment Rental is usually around 5% of the equipment purchase price (wired mic package at $100, wireless mic at 50/ea, k10 on stand @ 50, etc...). Labor is at $60/hr. this starts when we get to the site (2 hours before soundcheck) and is billable until an hour after wrap (typical strike time). I'll discount some portion of the equipment rental line for clients I really like, but there is no expectation of that. This past Sunday I got to work with an artist I've not been able to for 10 years. I knew their budget was tight and proposed to make it fit at $500. That just about covered my labor and freight. I basically discounted all of the equipment package rental line. It's a different thing when you are doing this for a living. I'm assuming you have a day job and do this "for fun". One other thing to consider as you are doing it "for fun" at bottom feeding prices: as long as you are willing to give it away, there will be someone willing to take it for (near) free. If your work product doesn't suck, you should be able to bring your rates to something that isn't lowering the floor of the industry. You clearly don't need the money as whatever day job you has is underwriting your unreasonably low rates (which are clearly not enough to pay for your equipment hobby). For reference sake, when I started 15 years ago, I was schlepping my Mackie 1402 feeding 2 Bose 800s for $150/night for coffeehouse gigs. Just my .02. And a nugget that I heard somewhere: "You are never less appreciated than when you give it away". The flip side of that is that at those rates don't really carry any implied value of your service. There is no place in Boston where anyone could simply dry rent the equipment that you are delivering, setting up, operating, for the $300 that you're giving it away for. It's just not good.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

David Nickerson said:
Hi Rob,
I do this for a living. This would typically be a ~$1500 job for me. Here is how I get there: (Freight, Equipment Rental and Labor) Starting with freight (truck load time, travel time and vehicle expense) at $50 - 150, depending on travel time and chance of parking tickets. (Boston or Cambridge events, freight is $150 unless there's a guarantee of free, safe parking - then it drops to $100. Even in Framingham (where my shop is) it's $50 if no chance of a ticket. Equipment Rental is usually around 5% of the equipment purchase price (wired mic package at $100, wireless mic at 50/ea, k10 on stand @ 50, etc...). Labor is at $60/hr. this starts when we get to the site (2 hours before soundcheck) and is billable until an hour after wrap (typical strike time). I'll discount some portion of the equipment rental line for clients I really like, but there is no expectation of that. This past Sunday I got to work with an artist I've not been able to for 10 years. I knew their budget was tight and proposed to make it fit at $500. That just about covered my labor and freight. I basically discounted all of the equipment package rental line. It's a different thing when you are doing this for a living. I'm assuming you have a day job and do this "for fun". One other thing to consider as you are doing it "for fun" at bottom feeding prices: as long as you are willing to give it away, there will be someone willing to take it for (near) free. If your work product doesn't suck, you should be able to bring your rates to something that isn't lowering the floor of the industry. You clearly don't need the money as whatever day job you has is underwriting your unreasonably low rates (which are clearly not enough to pay for your equipment hobby). For reference sake, when I started 15 years ago, I was schlepping my Mackie 1402 feeding 2 Bose 800s for $150/night for coffeehouse gigs. Just my .02. And a nugget that I heard somewhere: "You are never less appreciated than when you give it away". The flip side of that is that at those rates don't really carry any implied value of your service. There is no place in Boston where anyone could simply dry rent the equipment that you are delivering, setting up, operating, for the $300 that you're giving it away for. It's just not good.
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Unfortunately, David, the going rate for his market is all of $300 and that's it. It's just how it is. A bar band making $600 a night isn't going to pay $1500 for sound. A wedding band making $6000 a night will pay $1500 for sound, but it's a whole different ball game. And obviously then the real production market varies widely and all the line items you just talked about come into play.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

Thanks to all who read this and replied.
David, I totally get where you are coming from, and based on your business plan and overhead, the $1500 makes sense.
But to the point that Silas made, the bands I am working for are making $400 - $600 a night, so even my $300 is hitting them hard in the wallet.
At $300 a night, I don't think I am taking any work away from you or the level of production you offer. Just not apples to apples.
In full disclosure, this is strictly a weekend thing for me, I have a day job that allows me to buy the gear I use on the weekends.
And at $300 a night, I'll be long dead and buried before I hit the break-even mark.
So I think my $300 is reasonable for the types and level of bands I am working with, I don't feel I am taking away any gigs from the real pros like you.
Correct me if I am off-base here?
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

I agree with several points here. I do mostly 'private events' but still do some bands in bars. The going rate for bands in bars is what it is. I can ask $1500 but I'll never get it. I'll do the occasional gig at $300 but I don't seek them out. I, like everyone, would much rather do private events where there is a bigger budget but they are fewer and more difficult to get. If David can get $1500 doing bands in bars I am all for it but I'll be astounded if that is actually true. Must be different kinds of bars and bands and budgets than I am used to seeing here in Columbus.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

My issue comes into play here as well. Bars in the area don't want to pay the bands (they claim exposure is a great paycheck, BUT THAT DOESN'T PAY THE BILLS YOU CHEAP #%@#). If I were to send my rig out, which is similar to yours minus the mics and mixer (I'd have to sub-rent those). I would charge $400 just for the gear. Thats not including setup or tear down/delivery. Granted I have to rent a mixer and some mics and cable but still 300 dollars for everything is just too damn cheap for live bands.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

Jordan Lahr said:
My issue comes into play here as well. Bars in the area don't want to pay the bands (they claim exposure is a great paycheck, BUT THAT DOESN'T PAY THE BILLS YOU CHEAP #%@#). If I were to send my rig out, which is similar to yours minus the mics and mixer (I'd have to sub-rent those). I would charge $400 just for the gear. Thats not including setup or tear down/delivery. Granted I have to rent a mixer and some mics and cable but still 300 dollars for everything is just too damn cheap for live bands.
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So my question to you is, are you able to get $400 plus for a bar band gig out there in SD? I'm curious if the situation is different in other parts of the country. I'd ask for more than $300 if I think I could get it. But for the bands who have been contacting me (mostly Craig's List and some referrals), some of them are choking on $300.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

Rob Bernstein said:
So my question to you is, are you able to get $400 plus for a bar band gig out there in SD? I'm curious if the situation is different in other parts of the country. I'd ask for more than $300 if I think I could get it. But for the bands who have been contacting me (mostly Craig's List and some referrals), some of them are choking on $300.
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Around here $200 is the norm for bar bands. I don't turn them down in the winter months
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

The rate for techs that are more than just setup/teardown labor in the Boston area seems to start around $20 an hour (basic labor starts around $14/hr), at least in the events world. And if you want somebody good, expect to pay more. So a 5 hour gig would start at $100 for just the tech, with no gear (neglecting all the various employment taxes that add up). Add in IRS mileage rates at $.50/mile (approximate), and/or Boston parking rates, and you'll find that you've made a pretty good dent in that $300 number before even accounting for gear.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

If you are happy with the work you put in and what you are compensated keep on doing it. For my operation 300$ for client contact, e mails, phone calls, quotes, pre system check, delivery,load in, setup, tech time, strike, load out, load into shop and invoicing that just wouldn't cut it.
Sometimes it takes a little while to figure out if you are making money, breaking even or losing money. Its more of a time investment for me. I enjoy it to an extent but schlepping gear around for little to no pay gets old after a bit.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

Ben Lawrence said:
If you are happy with the work you put in and what you are compensated keep on doing it. For my operation 300$ for client contact, e mails, phone calls, quotes, pre system check, delivery,load in, setup, tech time, strike, load out, load into shop and invoicing that just wouldn't cut it.
Sometimes it takes a little while to figure out if you are making money, breaking even or losing money. Its more of a time investment for me. I enjoy it to an extent but schlepping gear around for little to no pay gets old after a bit.
Click to expand...
I totally agree, and that is why I turned down the gig this weekend for $200. For the amount of physical labor and time involved, it isn't worth it to me. I'd rather turn it down and spend the time doing something else than get home at 3AM and feel like I sold myself out. I need to enjoy it to keep doing it. So my line in the sand is $300 for now and I feel good with that.
 
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