Price check in Aisle 5

Re: Price check in Aisle 5

The guy told me they would do the sound themselves with their own PA. Good luck to them.
And generally the only people that notice the difference between a band mixing themselves or using a sound engineer are the musicians, or the staff if the band happens to be way too loud.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

Around here $200 is the norm for bar bands. I don't turn them down in the winter months

I'm not to far from Kemper, and it really changes from gig to gig. If i'm getting hired by one of the big companies I get anywhere from $250-$300 to show up with some headphones, but if i'm bringing all my gear out to a bar i may get $200-250... At least the bars helps pay the bills.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

At $300 a night, I don't think I am taking any work away from you or the level of production you offer. Just not apples to apples.
In full disclosure, this is strictly a weekend thing for me, I have a day job that allows me to buy the gear I use on the weekends.
And at $300 a night, I'll be long dead and buried before I hit the break-even mark.
So I think my $300 is reasonable for the types and level of bands I am working with, I don't feel I am taking away any gigs from the real pros like you.
Correct me if I am off-base here?

Actually, when you are subsidizing the cost of the event with your own pocketbook, you are devaluing the industry. When a band knows that they can hire your rig AND your labor for less cost than a dry rental of the same gear, that's not a good business plan. If the band is only making $400-$600 a night, maybe that band can't afford an engineer for the event.

Looking at your list of gear, you're bringing close to $15,000 worth of equipment to each gig. Just renting out that equipment list as dry rentals should fetch around $750.

What the band is making shouldn't affect the price of the service you offer. Do you think that they can walk into a music store and expect the most expensive instruments at discounted prices because they aren't making much at the gigs they are playing? No, they pay the price for the items they want. The difference is that when you are in a band, there is always the hope that your band becomes wildly popular, and money will start flowing. But the sound company has no chance of that happening in the future. If the band gets huge, they are most likely going to hire a higher end company.

Scale your gear properly to what the client is willing to pay, and you can actually make a profit. Heck, I rent out a pair of JBL Eons, speaker stands and a small mixer and 2 mics for $250 for the weekend on a pretty regular basis. All I have to do is make sure the gear is working when they return it, and re-wrap the cables. Total time investment is maybe a half hour per rental.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

I'll do an acoustic gig for 300 ish. That's 2 speakers on tripods and 1 monitor with a mixer, 2 mics and 2 DI's.


One trick in the bar band world that I have found is to find a band that has there own in-ears, and maybe mics, stands, and cables. If you are just providing stacks, racks, and mixer it becomes much easier. Some of the bands I worked with would set up their own mics and plug everything on stage in. I would feed their IEM's from FOH. I used a wireless capable mixer too, so I didn't have to roll (or carry) a snake. Just throw up the mains, plug in inputs and sit back with your tablet and mix. These gigs at 400-500 bucks are out there. The trick is to find the bands that will reduce your workload, and carry some of the cost (Mics, IEMS) themselves.

A typical bar gig that requires I do monitors and everything for a headliner plus an opener will bee 700-1000 bucks. I typically add 50 bucks per band if it's more than headliner and opener.

I usually pay a tech a $200 day rate.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

At Glen Echo Park in Maryland just outside of DC, the going rate for sound guy and gear is $300. Sometimes one will get $350. No subs necessary. Mostly swing bands. 4 monitors or less.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

Heck, I rent out a pair of JBL Eons, speaker stands and a small mixer and 2 mics for $250 for the weekend on a pretty regular basis. All I have to do is make sure the gear is working when they return it, and re-wrap the cables. Total time investment is maybe a half hour per rental.

Tell me where you find people willing to pay that much for Eons. Around here that fetches about $100.


Sent from my iPhone
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

Unfortunately, David, the going rate for his market is all of $300 and that's it. It's just how it is. A bar band making $600 a night isn't going to pay $1500 for sound. A wedding band making $6000 a night will pay $1500 for sound, but it's a whole different ball game. And obviously then the real production market varies widely and all the line items you just talked about come into play.

Maybe for a One Off wedding. But I don't think wedding bands are that high on the pay scale, but it also depends on the structure of the band.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

I rarely do wedding bands; I was just throwing that out there as a comparison.

The trick is to find a "Band that does weddings" not a "Wedding band". The band that does weddings is not likely to have their own gear and crew. Whereas the dedicated wedding band usually has plenty of gear and crew to go around.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

A few years back, I made the step up from the Bars Gigs and into Wedding/Corpy party/events band. I am the BE for two of the top bands in DC; I charge the agency a flat base rate for the band and that covers anything from a thumb drive to my full system (anything over 600people and sound is brought in). My Base rate is more than double my old bar pay and it’s about the same as semi popular bar bands.
I'm not making the $1500 at each event like Silas does, but I also don't need to 'compete for gigs'. The agency does all the scheduling and works out the event details; I only get involved ahead of time if there is a technical question about the band. I do charge extra when I need to supply a small PA for cocktail or ceremony, and anything over 3 hour drive includes a hotel room.

I have been hired a couple times for a One-off by a Professional Wedding Bands ($5k plus) a couple times and the band would “question” on me on my $1,000 rate.

Back when I was competing for bar band jobs I was charging $300 for a top over single sub within a 45 mins from my house (everything is spread out in my area). I could get $350 when I brought out 2 subs per side and $400 for an outdoor event (they have sand). (subs are JBL SRx718s).

If I do a small/local festival (no rider involvements, 4 monitor wedges and 5 wired mics on stage), I would price it out: $400 for the first band and/or gig hour and then $100 for each additional band and/or gig hour.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

every time i see threads like this, i'm tempted to post this. but i usually refrain. usually....

the thing about bar gigs is that there is no money in them and there never will be. it's not because the bar owners are cheap, although many are. it's not because the bands are cheap, although some are that as well. it's just simple economics.

the only reason a bar band gets paid is if they sell drinks. so, say the bar band gets paid 500 bucks. in order for this to make sense for the bar owner, the band has to see to it that there is a at least 500 EXTRA dollars in drink profits over what they would sell just playing CDs. That's not 500 Gross sales, That's NET after all of the owner's fixed costs, some of which go UP just because there's more people in the bar [another bartender, bouncer, ETC.]

Now, i'm not, not will i ever be, a bar owner. But i'm betting that you need to see a WHOLE lot of 5 dollar beers to cover that difference. I don't know, maybe 200 or so? at least? probably more? Someone with more experience in this area can chime in. Still, it takes a LOT of booze to cover the band at 500 bucks. now out of that the band needs to get some money for their troubles [split 4-5 ways] and the sound guy needs some cash. Guess what? nobody is going home with a pocketful of money.

The bad part about this little issue is that scaling up or down doesn't really mitigate the problem. Smaller bar=less PA/band provided sound=lower costs but less extra drinks sold=less money. Bigger bar=More PA=Higher costs and more drinks sold=more money but split more ways. You can find situations where you can shade this equation a bit more to your advantage, but you're never gonna win the game. The reason for this boils down to one simple fact. You, the band, and the bar owner and the bar's employees are prying your money from the hands of hard-working regular joes and josephines and they are not gonna give it up easily. First rule of making money is make sure you're getting paid by someone that is NOT spending their own money.

Bar gigs are for people who like hanging out in bars and making loud noises. they aren't for making money and they never will be. They're for losing money. the only variable is how much you're gonna lose. I don't mean that to be condescending or anything remotely like it. it just is what is.

If you want to make money doing sound, let go of doing sound for cool bands. even at the top of the game there's no money in it. Do sound for boring talking heads from companies that have accounting departments that are paying you the COMPANY's money. Sometimes those gigs have cool bands too. But either way the checks always clear.

If you want to do this as a hobby, go for it. nothing wrong with that. But if that's what you're doing, don't stress over how much money you're making. It's just not worth fretting over....
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

Well, I certainly opened up a can o' worms with this thread.
I appreciate the commentary (most of it), and am surprised at how much the pay scale is different across the country.
I'd be very happy with walk-up gigs that pay $300. I just haven't found them yet.
My old back is getting weary of my 80-pound subs.
But to Brian's point, this is a hobby for me, so I'll just pass on the "not-so-fun" gigs and take the ones that I want to.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

Man Brian just summed that up very neatly.That being the case you have to weigh this closely with purchasing new gear. I would say the quality of gear you are bringing is far surpassing the amount you are being paid. Of course you have to take into consideration if it makes running the gig easier on you as well.
Looks like you have already decided you are into it enough to invest your time so have some fun gigs and post pics of the mayhem.
 
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Re: Price check in Aisle 5

every time i see threads like this, i'm tempted to post this. but i usually refrain. usually....

the thing about bar gigs is that there is no money in them and there never will be. it's not because the bar owners are cheap, although many are. it's not because the bands are cheap, although some are that as well. it's just simple economics.

the only reason a bar band gets paid is if they sell drinks. so, say the bar band gets paid 500 bucks. in order for this to make sense for the bar owner, the band has to see to it that there is a at least 500 EXTRA dollars in drink profits over what they would sell just playing CDs. That's not 500 Gross sales, That's NET after all of the owner's fixed costs, some of which go UP just because there's more people in the bar [another bartender, bouncer, ETC.]

Now, i'm not, not will i ever be, a bar owner. But i'm betting that you need to see a WHOLE lot of 5 dollar beers to cover that difference. I don't know, maybe 200 or so? at least? probably more? Someone with more experience in this area can chime in. Still, it takes a LOT of booze to cover the band at 500 bucks. now out of that the band needs to get some money for their troubles [split 4-5 ways] and the sound guy needs some cash. Guess what? nobody is going home with a pocketful of money.

The bad part about this little issue is that scaling up or down doesn't really mitigate the problem. Smaller bar=less PA/band provided sound=lower costs but less extra drinks sold=less money. Bigger bar=More PA=Higher costs and more drinks sold=more money but split more ways. You can find situations where you can shade this equation a bit more to your advantage, but you're never gonna win the game. The reason for this boils down to one simple fact. You, the band, and the bar owner and the bar's employees are prying your money from the hands of hard-working regular joes and josephines and they are not gonna give it up easily. First rule of making money is make sure you're getting paid by someone that is NOT spending their own money.

Bar gigs are for people who like hanging out in bars and making loud noises. they aren't for making money and they never will be. They're for losing money. the only variable is how much you're gonna lose. I don't mean that to be condescending or anything remotely like it. it just is what is.

If you want to make money doing sound, let go of doing sound for cool bands. even at the top of the game there's no money in it. Do sound for boring talking heads from companies that have accounting departments that are paying you the COMPANY's money. Sometimes those gigs have cool bands too. But either way the checks always clear.

If you want to do this as a hobby, go for it. nothing wrong with that. But if that's what you're doing, don't stress over how much money you're making. It's just not worth fretting over....

Summed up well.
It was not always like this though. In the 70's and 80's I made an OK living as a small local provider for bar bands. In Michigan and surrounding states there were many many bars that thrived on the “party scene”. If you didn't have “the sound” and “the look” you sucked. Patrons expected that a different good band that met certain minimum requirements would be on site each week . A lot of clubs developed favorite bands who's shows were very well attended. Shoulder to shoulder and packed dance floors 3 or 4 nights a week were the norm. Folks just had more disposable income and fewer entertainment options. I think total expenses for the club owners were comparatively less as well. Plus liquor law enforcement was not as radical so people soaked up a lot lot more drinks. Eventually law enforcement began to basically camp out in bar parking lots. Penalties and fines for any DUI related offense became financially ruinous. That and other factors combined to a predictable effect and the party gradually came to an end.

Granted, I was young and single so my needs were less – but bar band pay vs. expenses needed to compete for gigs and still have a life was way way more favorable. Food, rent, gas, transportation, insurance – all relatively cheaper. Only the sound and lighting equipment was more initially expensive, but that just cut some of the competition and made “bigger and better” pay off more. The economics were very different. Alas or thank goodness depending on POV ...all things change.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

$800-1000 seems to be the magic breaking point to where things like labor, transport, and gear are line itemed and paid for. Below about that value I have found its simply a matter of what someone is willing to bring out, and whatever gear is needed to make this show happen for a flat rate.

$800-1000 is also the amount you'll pay for a reliability. A $300 sound guy might have to bail on you last minute and leave you scrambling for a replacement. At $800+ I can guarantee a high quality PA in full working condition, liability insurance, a decent truck, AND if I have to bail on you last minute, I can call anyone on my list to cover, who will do as good a job as I would.

I'll do a gig for <$800, but it has to be a day I'm absolutely certain nothing else is going on, and it's going to be an 01V and some JBL PRX. otherwise it's not worth my time.
 
Re: Price check in Aisle 5

""Looking at your list of gear, you're bringing close to $15,000 worth of equipment to each gig. Just renting out that equipment list as dry rentals should fetch around $750.""

Huh??? That's a 5% rental fee....I wish. I have trouble getting that much for twice as much gear plus a top notch engineer.