Property Tax

[Tim McCulloch]

Re: Property Tax

It seems getting any info on the tax's is nearly impossible too, I've searched all over the place and can't seem to find any info on property tax's in my area for businesses other than for farm land and mobile homes.

You can call your County Treasurer (or taxing authority equivalent). They will be happy to provide information.

Mobile homes are considered personal property because they were designed and built to be moved and, as such, are not *attachments* to real property. Farm LAND *is* real property and is subject to taxes based on use, value, and apportionment... but taxes on real property are not the same as taxes on personal property (even though they both come from the same pocket).

 

[Tim McCulloch]

Re: Property Tax

So how is the value determined? Is the depreciation schedule taken into account? It might be worth it to spend a little time learning the tax code they are working from and become an expert on what applies to your situation. It is not rocket science and I would say the skill set required to understand a page or two of the tax code is far less that what it requires to become an audio engineer. Just for an example lets say the equipment was owned buy a corporation in another state and was being rented to you. How is equipment that appears on a balance sheet taxed in your location? How is it taxed in another location? If you are talking a couple of hundred dollars Just pay it and consider it the cost of doing business. If it is potentially thousands of dollars then it is well worth your time do your research. I am interested in how this turns out so please keep us posted.

In our locale, valuation is determined by a County Assessor. His/her job is to make sure you don't lie (high or low) about the value of your land or goods subject to personal property taxes.

Depreciation IS taken into account: here, the Assessor sends out forms once a year that allows the owner to delete items that are no longer owned or to document further depreciation.

Kansas changed its personal property tax laws several years ago, and capital equipment, office equipment... pretty much anything that is not a highway vehicle or watercraft purchased after the date of those changes is exempt from personal property taxes. The law previously applied to any and all goods on the property of the taxpayer, which led to some interesting ways to dodge an inventory: loading up semi trailers and moving them to a public right of way, for example. One quarry operation straddled the Kansas/Missouri state line, and they moved all their heavy equipment to the Missouri side of their property on inventory day. Missouri had no personal property tax at the time (and may not, still). One of the big points here in Kansas was the responsibility for any and all personal property on the premises, even if it wasn't owned by the business. Only items that were rented (leased items were the responsibility of the lessee) under a rental agreement were exempt.

Note that what happened in Kansas is almost certainly NOT indicative of Silas' reality in CT. Silas needs to contact his accountant to avoid filing asset lists that might bring about the attention of the Central Scrutinizer® (Frank Zappa, from "Joe's Garage"). Saying your tools are part of inventory for sale probably won't work unless you keep your tools in a showroom and have price tags on the shelf or item.

 

[Max Warasila]

Re: Property Tax

Kansas changed its personal property tax laws several years ago, and capital equipment, office equipment... pretty much anything that is not a highway vehicle or watercraft purchased after the date of those changes is exempt from personal property taxes.

So what you are saying is that Behringer manipulated the government carefully to try and force you out of your good old I-Techs? (Had to be done)

 

[Philip Roberts]

Re: Property Tax

Tim said the magic, word. I'm surprised it took so long.

... accountant ...

And yes there is a difference between a bookkeeper and an accountant. Tax law is complex, finding the right accountant (probably a CPA but not necessarily) will be a big help as they can ask you the right questions to help you minimize your tax liability and the difference in tax liability may very well cover their fee.

FWIW my dad's a CPA.

Philip

 

[Randy Gartner]

Re: Property Tax

In Pennsylvania,we have no tax on equipment. Of course they tax everything else.You should try to list all the taxes you pay.Property tax,gas tax,sales tax,phone tax,tax on savings,tax on booze,income tax, etc It will soon make you realize how much money our government takes in and, make you wonder,with all that revenue,how can they be broke!

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Property Tax

In Pennsylvania,we have no tax on equipment. Of course they tax everything else.You should try to list all the taxes you pay.Property tax,gas tax,sales tax,phone tax,tax on savings,tax on booze,income tax, etc It will soon make you realize how much money our government takes in and, make you wonder,with all that revenue,how can they be broke!

Well for one the gubmint gave IRS employes credit cards, and then didn't bother with checking what they bought with them. Whats worse than the taxes (if that's possible) is programs like the free cell phones, that were not paid for with taxes directly but a surcharge on other people phone bills, so all those free phones were not even on the gubmint books.

I think we need to hire more government workers and their paycheck depends on them cutting costs. It seems like it would be pretty easy picking for the first ten or twenty years. Maybe start out with them having to save $10 for every $1 they get paid. Eventually when it gets down to 1 for 1 they fire themselves.

I don't mean to make light of the tax situation, but the public doesn't seem to take it seriously, even with IRS workers taking the 5th amendment, and nobody cares? Glad I'm old and don't have any kids, after I'm dead they can have my bills.

JR

 

[Randy Gartner]

Re: Property Tax

We all complain about taxes but we keep electing the same old politicians.

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Property Tax

We all complain about taxes but we keep electing the same old politicians.

Just to be clear I believe the situation would be somewhat less bad if the guys I voted for the last couple times were elected, but i agree it is a matter of degrees. Both parties seem to favor big government, and that is one time when more definitely isn't better.

I worry about the poor civics education of the general public, and the poor history education of the public, and the poor math education of elected officials.

JR

 

[Brian jojade]

Re: Property Tax

Business property taxes are quite common, with lists of exemptions for certain things. Depending on the state, you can either be taxed based on depreciated value, or on the actual value of the items. In Wisconsin, there is a line item to count how many reams of paper are here to account for. Inventory is exempt from taxes, but items used in the business would be taxed.

Another thing to look out for is collecting sales tax. In Connecticut, you need to be collecting sales tax for your services. You can tack this on to the final bill, just like everyone else does. You collect the payment and submit it to the state each month. If you don't collect the tax, that doesn't mean you aren't still liable for the tax. If you get audited, they can make you pay the tax owed on all the services you provided. Not a happy place to end up!! That number is going to be far worse than the property tax you'll end up paying on your gear.

 

[Brad Weber]

Re: Property Tax

Business property taxes are quite common, with lists of exemptions for certain things. Depending on the state, you can either be taxed based on depreciated value, or on the actual value of the items. In Wisconsin, there is a line item to count how many reams of paper are here to account for. Inventory is exempt from taxes, but items used in the business would be taxed.

Another thing to look out for is collecting sales tax. In Connecticut, you need to be collecting sales tax for your services. You can tack this on to the final bill, just like everyone else does. You collect the payment and submit it to the state each month. If you don't collect the tax, that doesn't mean you aren't still liable for the tax. If you get audited, they can make you pay the tax owed on all the services you provided. Not a happy place to end up!! That number is going to be far worse than the property tax you'll end up paying on your gear.

The economy over the last few years has definitely affected how many states, counties and cities approach taxes. Luckily, Georgia does not tax services, but as Brian noted, some states do and others have or are apparently considering it. I know some companies in other states that got hit for back taxes on services and it was a steep bill with significant penalties.

I do have to pay property tax on certain purchases, here you can apply scheduled depreciation and that along with the limits defined and my situation has gotten to where the County just sends a letter each year saying that I don't owe anything unless I made any major purchases (my CPA who is located in an adjacent County was shocked when I first got one of those letters).

 

[Dave Barnett]

Re: Property Tax

I worry about the poor civics education of the general public, and the poor history education of the public, and the poor math education of elected officials.

Education is supported by property tax.

 

[Matt Lillie]

Re: Property Tax

Then there are those who go and start their own schools, pay $30k/yr per kid and vote "NO" on school budgets. Don't want their taxes to go up, you see, because their kids don't go to the school for the poor kids.

Education is supported by property tax.

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Property Tax

Education is supported by property tax.

Wouldn't it be nice of spending more money got us better education.,,,,,,, bzzzt not.

Working in management conditions one to expect results for money we spend. Prudent management measures results. Educators have resisted standardized testing from NCLB, even after watering it down by later administrations handing out exemptions left and right, we are still seeing improvement. The data indicates that lower grades are improving while higher grades are same to worse, but this data quirk can be somewhat explained by less problem students dropping out of HS, so while they are individually doing better by staying in school, they are bringing down the group averages. I can live with that. A work in process still but small movement toward the light.

Speaking of averages a whole gaggle of teachers in GA tried to get their case thrown out on a technicality, but it looks like they will get their day in court to explain wholesale manipulation of answers on standardized tests where the teachers cheated, not the students.

David McCullough a well known historian made a comment in passing about education where he observed that the best teachers are experts at something else and they get to transfer their passion for some subject to students. We probably have tons of older unemployed or semi-retired experts who would love to share their passion and would make great teachers. Who would ever be opposed to that... um maybe teachers who aren't experts at stuff...

My judgement is that just throwing more money at education while tolerating the status quo, will just buy us more quo.

JR

U.S. Education Spending & Student Performance vs. The World Infographic | MAT@USC | USC Rossier Online

 

[Max Warasila]

Re: Property Tax

As somebody still in the aforementioned school system, I am finding it increasingly attractive to merely take the GED test and acquire my schooling from my local community college. Only thing keeping me where I am currently are the opportunities for making connections that I can use later in life as well as the fact that it does give my something to do.

I personally find the largest problem where I am to be the fact that higher level classes are essentially open enrollment, as the teacher signature required to attend higher level courses such as Honors or Advanced Placement curriculums are practically given out for free, rather than a student having to test in. While this began as a way to open the programs to people who couldn't test for numerous reasons, monetary or otherwise, it has come with a drastic problem.

This problem starts with the constant, "brainwashing," if you will, that you MUST go to college to succeed and that to get into college you MUST take higher level courses (not true, but it is definitely helpful in the long run). This means that since anyone can take these courses, people with no business being in these classes have joined the student base, effectively widening the gap between the highest student and lowest student in a course. This adds to the problem of "teaching to the masses" and, thus, the classroom slows down, taking many forms such as going over material too many times or people getting lost behind the rest of the class. My point here is that students that are at higher levels or would be at higher levels are actually suffering, and stupid people are still stupid people (no offense, but there are many dim-bulbs out there).

Of course, the simple solution is to once again restrict these courses, but no. "What about the children!" "It's for the children." "The children are our future!" All of these severely mis-abused (sorry, inside joke, and I love that non-existant word) arguments prevent politicians from fixing things because, you guessed it, they have to get re-elected, and you know that if they cut or change anything that can be used against them, the opponents in the races will use it against them. [Side thing about politicians: The Lesser of Two Weevils - Master and Commander (1/11) Movie CLIP (2003) HD - YouTube ]

So yes, JR, more money at the education system will end up producing the same results with more bells and whistles, unless changes to the way things are done with the money also made. EDIT: Also, I appreciate the graphic, which once again shows the magnificence of Canada.

Then again, this thread is about property tax, which I personally find absurd considering that it would violate a supposed "right to property" that United States Citizens have... or maybe not...

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Property Tax

Then again, this thread is about property tax, which I personally find absurd considering that it would violate a supposed "right to property" that United States Citizens have... or maybe not...

Property tax seems a logical way to spread the cost of local services across people who can best pay for them and does not contradict the right to own property unless that taxation is burdensome. Traditionally too much taxation on one narrow area will kill the golden goose, who stops laying golden eggs. Fairness depends on your personal perspective. Some might argue that services should be paid for by all who consume them, but the modern definition of fairness ignored that a long time ago. At the heart of the new healthcare legislation is a simple transfer of the cost incurred by the unhealthy to the healthy. Without any check on how healthcare is consumed this free buffet will lead to unprecedented spending increases.

For a long time after our founding the federal government was fully funded by fees for government services, and duty on imports/exports. Government needs to be funded, but do we need so much of it??

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Your, being prodded to attend college is a classic confusion of cause and effect. Since old studies have shown that gaining a college degree led to more lifetime earnings, it seems simple for everybody to make more money just send them all to college. Just like politicians correlated home ownership with a better life so we'll just help everybody buy a house whether they are ready to or not. We know how that turned out. We are in the middle of a similar higher education bubble, where too easy college lending has led to more money chasing a finite resource so college prices went up, and some argue the quality of that education has been lowered by a broader slice of the population attending. Irony is that making it so easy to borrow money for college will burden many young adults with so much debt that it makes it difficult for them buy homes later. More unintended consequences of meddling with free markets.

JR

PS: caveat lector: I am a college dropout with an unremarkable high school record so take my comments about education with a grain of salt. I do value the education that i did received along the way when I wasn't bored out of my skull, and the many people who helped me learn along the way outside the education system.

 

[Randy Gartner]

Re: Property Tax

Property tax seems a logical way to spread the cost of local services across people who can best pay for them and does not contradict the right to own property unless that taxation is burdensome. Traditionally too much taxation on one narrow area will kill the golden goose, who stops laying golden eggs. Fairness depends on your personal perspective. Some might argue that services should be paid for by all who consume them, but the modern definition of fairness ignored that a long time ago. At the heart of the new healthcare legislation is a simple transfer of the cost incurred by the unhealthy to the healthy. Without any check on how healthcare is consumed this free buffet will lead to unprecedented spending increases.

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JR

.

At one time,only the rich could afford property so property taxes made sense.The problem,at least in Pennsylvania is,the school property tax has become burdensome in many counties.Ever since teachers were given the right to strike,their salaries and benefits have gone through the roof.They can retire at age 55 with 80% of their pay. A teacher with a masters degree and 30 years could top out at $80,000.These lavish pensions of not only teachers but police,fire fighters,judges,legislators,prison guards,highway workers etc has caused $40 billion
in unfunded liabilities in the pension plan.We are told our state constitution doesn't allow us to cut their benefits so our all ready high property taxes will go up again to pay for their pensions while those of us who have to fund our own retirement have seen our investments languish. Over 10,000 Pennsylvanians lost their homes last year,many due to the high property taxes.We don't own our homes in Pa,we just rent them from the state!

 

[John Roberts]

Re: Property Tax

At one time,only the rich could afford property so property taxes made sense.The problem,at least in Pennsylvania is,the school property tax has become burdensome in many counties.Ever since teachers were given the right to strike,their salaries and benefits have gone through the roof.They can retire at age 55 with 80% of their pay. A teacher with a masters degree and 30 years could top out at $80,000.These lavish pensions of not only teachers but police,fire fighters,judges,legislators,prison guards,highway workers etc has caused $40 billion
in unfunded liabilities in the pension plan.We are told our state constitution doesn't allow us to cut their benefits so our all ready high property taxes will go up again to pay for their pensions while those of us who have to fund our own retirement have seen our investments languish. Over 10,000 Pennsylvanians lost their homes last year,many due to the high property taxes.We don't own our homes in Pa,we just rent them from the state!

I suspect the teachers union sees it differently but PA is not alone. Maybe you can drill for some shale gas on your property i think PA still lets you do that. .

It looks like the health care smorgasbord may be delayed another year. They need to be careful, if they wait too long and give all their friends exemptions there won't be enough suckers left to pay for it.

Just to be clear education is important.. but is should be possible to get that accomplished without breaking the bank.

For the record we are a very wealthy country, problem is we spend like we're even wealthier than that.

JR

 

[Chris Nixon]

Re: Property Tax

What I don't understand is why a set of graphs showing "Education spending and performance in twelve countries" has a title of "U.S. Education vs. The World" rather than "Education of 12 countries compared" or even "12 countries vs. each other".

Chris

 

[Jay Barracato]

This year I had 143 students still assigned to me at the final exam. Those 143 students had a total of 2581 absences. That is not including trips to the nurse, their psychologist, their guidance counselor, or their administrator.

So before blaming the teachers for the lack of results try running a business where the average employee misses two days a week and is unable to work for a third, and on any given day a third of the staff is missing.

As for teachers finishing with a salary of $80000, that is also most likely at a masters +30 educational level. Most other professions that require the same amount of education start their career in that salary range not finish it.

 

[Max Warasila]

Re: Property Tax

This year I had 143 students still assigned to me at the final exam. Those 143 students had a total of 2581 absences. That is not including trips to the nurse, their psychologist, their guidance counselor, or their administrator.

So before blaming the teachers for the lack of results try running a business where the average employee misses two days a week and is unable to work for a third, and on any given day a third of the staff is missing.

As for teachers finishing with a salary of $80000, that is also most likely at a masters +30 educational level. Most other professions that require the same amount of education start their career in that salary range not finish it.

I am terribly sorry to hear about the 2581 absences. If it makes you feel any better, there are some of us who don't even miss a day when we are sick. Maybe there is hope for us yet.