Quick and Dirty Bar Rig Speaker Pattern Poll

[drew gandy]

This is a question about the dispersion patterns of the "main" speakers for a Quick N Dirty Bar Rig. We can discuss whether the published pattern actually relates to the real use performance but for the purpose of this poll I'm curious what kind of horizontal dispersion is preferred and why.

addendum: How do you edit a poll? I have realized that my options are poorly defined.

 

[Art Welter]

Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig Speaker Pattern Poll

I voted for 60-90 degrees assuming a single cabinet per side.
90 degree would be preferred for a single, wide enough for most rooms, not too wide to spill in to vocal mics near the mains.
Using two cabinets side by side I'd typically want 45 degree coverage.
Using 90 degree cabinets the top cabinet can be flipped and in general do better (as far as not having severe horizontal comb filtering) than two side by side cabinets.

That said, there are many "shotgun shack" bars where a pair of 30 degree or less dispersion cabinets are "just right".

 

[Eric Cagle]

Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig Speaker Pattern Poll

It obviously depends on the room but I usually use a 90 degree cabinet. I will go to a 60 degree cabinet if I need to keep the pattern off of the walls or if I have to throw long and narrow which has been seldom lately. In a bar situation most of the time all of the action is happening in the first 50 feet and a 90 degree pattern does well. Most of the larger rooms in my area already are flying house mains so you take what they have and work with it. The top room at the Masquerade is kind of the exception and most national acts with a budget will bring something better in. 90 degrees works well there if you have enough juice and some way to fill the front because of the wide stage.

 

[drew gandy]

Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig Speaker Pattern Poll

I expect that we all would like to have different speakers that are perfect for each different venue but I think the idea of the Quick and Dirty is that this system is all you've got. You need to fit it all in your van/truck/trailer/garage and so even if there was a big budget for boxes, you don't necessarily have room for "extra" boxes. On some of the wedding gigs I've seen/done I wished I had 180 degree speakers so everybody could hear the introduction of the wedding party and all the speeches (think about how the stage is usually sticking out of a long wall so you need to turn your speakers around to reach the corners.) On other gigs it's completely different. Part of the question is, I think, how many people want to "array" more than 2 boxes per side with their Quick and Dirty? Is it worth the complication? Not even considering that the boxes at this price point don't likely 'splay well together'.

 

[Ivan Beaver]

Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig Speaker Pattern Poll

The big problem is that the rated coverage pattern only applied to the top 2-3 octaves because the horns are so small.

So what you "think" the speakers are doing is quite different from what they really are.

But if I was to choose a "general pattern for most applications" it would be around 80-90°.

In many cases it is better to have energy hitting the walls than to not have enough coverage pattern-in my opinion.

And when people make statements that they use narrower patterns to "keep the energy off the walls" it is-again' only the top octaves in many cases-especially in "bar band" system that uses small horns.

The only way to have pattern control is PHYSICAL SiZE-there is no other way around that. Small devices simply don't have enough physical size to have control.

And for a given physical size-the wider pattern will be able to control the sound to a lower freq.

So a physically smaller horn that has a wider pattern will be able to control as well as a larger narrower horn.

And then we run into the whole "How smooth is the coverage within the pattern-things like hot spots etc" but we won't go there.

As with all audio question you HAVE to ask "At what freq". The pattern could be completely different at a different freq-so how much energy is going where now?

 

[Rob Spence]

This is the bar band system. If you are doing weddings, then a couple of smaller speakers such as QSC K8s to cover the corners for the speeches could work.


Sent from my iPad HD

 

[Brad Harris]

.... On some of the wedding gigs I've seen/done I wished I had 180 degree speakers so everybody could hear the introduction of the wedding party and all the speeches (think about how the stage is usually sticking out of a long wall so you need to turn your speakers around to reach the corners.) .....

Why not have a pair of smaller powered speakers (K8 or smaller), each on a stand on the US corner of the stage pointed out just for such things as speeches. Run it off a matrix out (or simply unplug the xlr)?

From the smallest corporates (speaker on stick) to the largest ones (multiple hangs of big boy pa), the band (or informal) program rarely goes through these (or is around -9db quieter depending on a dozen factors), but you can bet that the CEO, or Mother of the bride is definitely going through those speakers.

BRad

 

[Mike Monte]

Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig Speaker Pattern Poll

This is the bar band system. If you are doing weddings, then a couple of smaller speakers such as QSC K8s to cover the corners for the speeches could work.


Sent from my iPad HD

My bar rig:
one Yorkville TX4 over one ES808 (single 18 sub) per side.........................d-o-n-e.
...way more gear/coverage is available....

It's a bar (for heaven's sake) and there may be a few patrons that want "ear bleed" volume....(there ARE the few that hang infront of the stacks....). We are there to service all.
MM

 

[Ernest Graham]

Re: Quick and Dirty Bar Rig Speaker Pattern Poll

You are talking about small venues (under 200 capacity). I would choose the 90 degree coverage of the EV 12" ZLX12P over the KW 153's 75 degree coverage. In live use the EVs provide the necessary coverage in small, easy rooms without being overkill, and there's no need for fill speakers. The QSC KW 153's do better in significantly larger indoor environments (they hold their own outdoors up to a point), of course they'll need fill speakers if you spread them far apart. Using them in too small an area can be overkill. Even when the KW 153 would be a better choice sound wise, sometimes they are too big to use or fit anywhere in the environment of the gig. As long as the bar is 150 capacity or less the EV speakers are adequate. 200 might be pushing it depending on the other factors.