Radial PRO DI - passive

Shane Presley

Shane Presley

Senior
Jan 12, 2011
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Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.bssproductions.com
So I bought a whack of RADIAL PRO DIs thinking I'd be much happier, when in fact they are often more troublesome and I end up using an active DI.
This defeats the purpose of having a passive DI so when the muso forgets to ask to unplug.
About 2/3rds of the instruments I plug into them requires more than normal gain to get anything from it. Is anyone else experiencing the same problem with weak output from these di's (and no the pad isn't engaged). Is the only solution to use an active di, or is having a higher than normal gain an issue?

thanks
 
Re: Radial PRO DI - passive

What's a "normal" gain level? I have a ProD2 and it had been my go to passive for a coupe years. My GLDs have encoders for the gain. I could look at the preamp page to see what the actual gain is but I never do. I figure when it's giving me the signal I want then it must be right, I don't care how much gain it takes or doesn't take. I use it for keys and electronic percussion stuff so I use the pads most of the time.
 
Re: Radial PRO DI - passive

Shane Presley said:
So I bought a whack of RADIAL PRO DIs thinking I'd be much happier, when in fact they are often more troublesome and I end up using an active DI.
This defeats the purpose of having a passive DI so when the muso forgets to ask to unplug.
About 2/3rds of the instruments I plug into them requires more than normal gain to get anything from it. Is anyone else experiencing the same problem with weak output from these di's (and no the pad isn't engaged). Is the only solution to use an active di, or is having a higher than normal gain an issue?

thanks
Click to expand...

Are you coming into a mic input or a line input?
 
Re: Radial PRO DI - passive

I'm using 1/4" from instrument, xlr to snake, snake to console... I would say I'm using 20% more gain than a vocal mic would need... As a comparison, if 12 o'clock is a good vocal gain, it would take 2 or 3 o'clock to get proper di gain.... An active di on that channel would require a 9 or 10 o'clock gain....
 
Shane Presley said:
I'm using 1/4" from instrument, xlr to snake, snake to console... I would say I'm using 20% more gain than a vocal mic would need... As a comparison, if 12 o'clock is a good vocal gain, it would take 2 or 3 o'clock to get proper di gain.... An active di on that channel would require a 9 or 10 o'clock gain....
Click to expand...

Which active DI?

I have the ProDI, JDI, J48 & PCDI and have never noticed what trim I use. What ever it takes.

Why would you compare it to a vocal mic? Do all vocal mics put out the same level for the same singer? No. Do all singers need the same trim? No.


Sent from my iPad HD
 
Re: Radial PRO DI - passive

Rob Spence said:
Which active DI?

I have the ProDI, JDI, J48 & PCDI and have never noticed what trim I use. What ever it takes.

Why would you compare it to a vocal mic? Do all vocal mics put out the same level for the same singer? No. Do all singers need the same trim? No.
HD
Click to expand...
I guess the short answer is , it takes what it takes....
Comparing it to a vocal mic was just to say that usually my di's are trimmed lower than my vocal mics but in this case i had to trim them higher. Thanks for the input
 
Re: Radial PRO DI - passive

I have some of those as well as the J series both active and passive and a PZDI on the way.
What type of instruments are you plugging into it?
The rule of thumb is that active instruments, keyboards, active preamp guitars, ect. that a passive DI will be fine. With passive instruments like Fender Precision bass and some old school keyboards like a Rhodes piano an active DI is a better due to the higher input impedance that passive pickups like to see. Plugging a low level output passive instrument into a passive DI can result in a lower than normal output from the DI and maybe a noticeable change in the tone of the instrument, with a pizeo pickup up it's really noticeable when plugged straight into a 100k or so passive DI input.
 
Re: Radial PRO DI - passive

Mike Caldwell said:
I have some of those as well as the J series both active and passive and a PZDI on the way.
What type of instruments are you plugging into it?
.
Click to expand...


Mostly acoustic guitars, but some fiddles, mandolins, banjos, and you're correct - usually the passive, non pre-amp guitars is what gives me the least output, so I have to use an active di. The problem with that is usually the "cheaper instrument" is, the more novice the player is, and they walk off and just unplug thier instrument. 9 times out of 10 I catch them or they ask, but it's the POP on the 10th I'm trying to avoid. I guess it's back to active di's and more watching the deck like a hawk.
 
Re: Radial PRO DI - passive

I think it boils down to expectations, unless you're adding so much gain that the hiss is getting to be a problem.

I recently put together a pedal board for a guitar player. It's designed to handle both his acoustic and electric guitars, and has a mic and pickup output for the acoustic. I originally put a dual JT-DB-E DI in to isolate his gear from the PA du jour, figuring that would be bulletproof. It all worked, but he felt (and so did many of the sound techs) that these outputs were too low, even though they were being fed from an EQ line output. Last week, I replaced the Jensen with a 1:1 dual box, which brings the level up 15 or so dB. I'm waiting on a report on this week's gigs to see how it went.

GTD
 
Re: Radial PRO DI - passive

Shane Presley said:
The problem with that is usually the "cheaper instrument" is, the more novice the player is, and they walk off and just unplug thier instrument. 9 times out of 10 I catch them or they ask, but it's the POP on the 10th I'm trying to avoid. I guess it's back to active di's and more watching the deck like a hawk.
Click to expand...

I don't think the type of DI used will affect the POP of someone disconnecting a live source. That's just a matter of how much total gain there is on the channel.

You'll just have to be able to anticipate when your performers are about to do something amateurish. Reach for the mute on their channel the second they've finished the last note of their last song.
 
Re: Radial PRO DI - passive

A DI that adds gain is essentially the same thing as turning up the gain on the mixer. It's just happening at a different spot.

As far as popping from unplugging an instrument, the net effect would be the same either way. If it's a problem, get shorting 1/4" connectors and you won't have a problem.
 
Re: Radial PRO DI - passive

Shane Presley said:
Is anyone else experiencing the same problem with weak output from these di's (and no the pad isn't engaged). Is the only solution to use an active di, or is having a higher than normal gain an issue?
Click to expand...

Yes, and I find it very annoying. I also wish I hadn't bought a bunch of these. I definitely have to use more gain than other passive DI's. Like seriously some times my gain is at 3 o'clock to get a usable level on some instruments. I've never experienced this on any other DI.
 
Loren Aguey said:
Yes, and I find it very annoying. I also wish I hadn't bought a bunch of these. I definitely have to use more gain than other passive DI's. Like seriously some times my gain is at 3 o'clock to get a usable level on some instruments. I've never experienced this on any other DI.
Click to expand...

I think it's you guys... I have a ton and never have an issue. The gain is usually the same as or less than vocal microphones.

Now if the keyboard volume is at 10% and you're trying to get a level...

Sent from my XT907 2
 
Re: Radial PRO DI - passive

Shane Presley said:
see see im not crazy
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what the problem is here. Yeah I usually have to use about 10db more gain than a vocal mic but it sounds and works fine, no significant added noise with any of the consoles I use. I mean, if there was never intended to be that much gain on a head amp they would have designed the console differently?
 
Shane,

Passive DIs achieve their impedance isolation by using a step down transformer, which will have about 12dB of pad in it by its very nature. Active DIs are basically a fixed gain phantom powered preamp at the end of a mic cable, which is why they're hotter at the console. Either will be equally susceptible to passing on the pop from musicians unplugging or plugging instruments.
 
Re: Radial PRO DI - passive

Bennett Prescott said:
Shane,

Passive DIs achieve their impedance isolation by using a step down transformer, which will have about 12dB of pad in it by its very nature. Active DIs are basically a fixed gain phantom powered preamp at the end of a mic cable, which is why they're hotter at the console. Either will be equally susceptible to passing on the pop from musicians unplugging or plugging instruments.
Click to expand...

I was bored and ran pink off my phone into a Pro DI and a cheapo OSP passive into an audio interface. Reaper shows that the OSP passive had about 1 db more signal coming in, which of course is negligible. So I don't really have a proper explanation of why I feel the ProDI's output a weaker signal than other passives, but it seems like every time I use one I'm reminded of it.

It's actually funny this thread popped up because I literally had the exact same conversation with the monitor guy on a festival I did last weekend. We both agreed they appear to have weak signal (compared to other passives, well aware that actives are always hotter).
 
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