Recent Talk with a Licensed commercial electrician has me thinking.

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Brad Dillon

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Aug 14, 2014
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Ok first off i am a weekend warrior with a lot of gear and i typically gig almost every weekend of the year. I have put a lot of money into thicker (10 guage) extension cords to go directly to the wall with for my amps. But upon speaking with the electrician he says the wire in the walls is 16 guage. and that me having any thicker cord from the wall to my amps is a pointless added expense for me. I do mobile work and in venues around here there are no 50 amp plugs available.

Yes i know i should just invest in a power distro, I am working my way towards that. Keep in mind i am a Mobile DJ that does some light live sound on the side to. Amps i am using are a Crown XTI 4000, Peavey CS 4000, and Peavey CS 4080. Right now i currently use 10 guage extension cords (Each amp Seperate circuit) to run power to my rig.I hadn't yet experinced any problems from bad power.. but My question is, is this electrician right?
 
Re: Recent Talk with a Licensed commercial electrician has me thinking.

Brad Dillon said:
Ok first off i am a weekend warrior with a lot of gear and i typically gig almost every weekend of the year. I have put a lot of money into thicker (10 guage) extension cords to go directly to the wall with for my amps. But upon speaking with the electrician he says the wire in the walls is 16 guage. and that me having any thicker cord from the wall to my amps is a pointless added expense for me. I do mobile work and in venues around here there are no 50 amp plugs available.

Yes i know i should just invest in a power distro, I am working my way towards that. Keep in mind i am a Mobile DJ that does some light live sound on the side to. Amps i am using are a Crown XTI 4000, Peavey CS 4000, and Peavey CS 4080. Right now i currently use 10 guage extension cords (Each amp Seperate circuit) to run power to my rig.I hadn't yet experinced any problems from bad power.. but My question is, is this electrician right?
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Hi Brad - welcome to the forum. You either mis-heard your electrician buddy or he was wrong. Commercial building code has for many years required #12 wire in the walls and 20A breakers on receptacles. Some very old buildings (pre-1960's wiring) may have #14 and 15A fuses, but anything remotely modern will be #12.

Your 10-ga extension cords are probably not necessary, but certainly aren't a bad thing, since voltage drop is cumulative. If you're not having problems, you're probably fine. Your best bet for the next level is to try to find as many separate circuits as you can and divide your loads among them. A 50A distro is a nice luxury, but as you have found out, most small to medium sized venues only have Edison circuits.
 
Re: Recent Talk with a Licensed commercial electrician has me thinking.

Yes, he is right... Dont worry about cable thickness until you get over 15amp draw, or over 75' of distance. Sounds like 14/3 would have been the ticket for you. At least you're ready with the 10 gauge , when the time comes
Welcome to the forum
 
Re: Recent Talk with a Licensed commercial electrician has me thinking.

ok thanks TJ... i figured as much thats why i asked..
 
Re: Recent Talk with a Licensed commercial electrician has me thinking.

Shane Presley said:
Yes, he is right... Dont worry about cable thickness until you get over 15amp draw, or over 75' of distance. Sounds like 14/3 would have been the ticket for you. At least you're ready with the 10 gauge , when the time comes
Welcome to the forum
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The electrician is NOT right. In the US, commercial wiring is going to be 12 gauge to the outlets. In our lifetime, it has never been to code to install 16 gauge wire to outlets in the wall. When it comes to power cable, heavier is ALWAYS preferred. The downside being cost and weight. When cables are not heavy enough, the result will be voltage drop. 15 amps on a 16 gauge wire 75 feet long will result in a voltage drop of about 7.53%. That's pretty significant, especially considering the potential drop to the outlet. The maximum allowed drop at rated load for an outlet is 5%. (which is roughly 100 feet of 12 gauge cable) If you are on a 'weak' outlet (meaning a long run inside the wall) and you use a 75' 16 gauge wire on a 15 amp draw, the net result is going to be a voltage drop to somewhere around 105 volts!

Now, also keep in mind that power amps are not constant draw devices. They pull power in spurts, as needed. If you ever notice lights dimming when the bass beat hits, it's because of voltage drop. While your average power will stay below the level required to trip a breaker, the amp could draw significantly more power for brief moments. With thin cords, this means even more voltage drop. A 4000 watt amp could theoretically demand 4000 watts from the wall (or slightly more) if even for a brief moment. At 4000 watts, that same cord would then be showing a paltry 85 volts at the end of the cable. You probably won't blow the breaker, but stuff is going to start shutting down on you. Now, if you use a piece of 10 gauge wire instead of that 16 gauge wire, plugged to the outlet that's got 100' of 12 gauge in the wall, the net voltage at super peak draw is going to remain above 100 volts. Still a significant drop, but much more likely to remain in the 'friendly' zone for gear.
 
Re: Recent Talk with a Licensed commercial electrician has me thinking.

Brad Dillon said:
Ok first off i am a weekend warrior with a lot of gear and i typically gig almost every weekend of the year. I have put a lot of money into thicker (10 guage) extension cords to go directly to the wall with for my amps. But upon speaking with the electrician he says the wire in the walls is 16 guage. and that me having any thicker cord from the wall to my amps is a pointless added expense for me. I do mobile work and in venues around here there are no 50 amp plugs available.

Yes i know i should just invest in a power distro, I am working my way towards that. Keep in mind i am a Mobile DJ that does some light live sound on the side to. Amps i am using are a Crown XTI 4000, Peavey CS 4000, and Peavey CS 4080. Right now i currently use 10 guage extension cords (Each amp Seperate circuit) to run power to my rig.I hadn't yet experinced any problems from bad power.. but My question is, is this electrician right?
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Either you mis-heard, he mis-understood, or you should never, never, ever spend any time in a building he wired. Serious as a fucking heart attack...

As other have pointed out, it's a violation of Code to install wiring smaller than #14 (on a 15 amp breaker) in a commercial occupancy, and that's for old "grandfathered" work. Current Code does not permit new branch circuit wiring smaller than #12, protected by a 20 amp breaker.

Also as pointed out, voltage drop is cumulative; i.e. it's a function of the total circuit resistance. Your bigger wire means less resistance and less additional voltage drop. This is a good thing and is not a waste of time or money.
 
Re: Recent Talk with a Licensed commercial electrician has me thinking.

Gotcha.. Ok thanks for all the replys.. I feel better now.. lol
 
Re: Recent Talk with a Licensed commercial electrician has me thinking.

Brian jojade said:
Now, also keep in mind that power amps are not constant draw devices. They pull power in spurts, as needed. If you ever notice lights dimming when the bass beat hits, it's because of voltage drop. While your average power will stay below the level required to trip a breaker, the amp could draw significantly more power for brief moments. With thin cords, this means even more voltage drop. A 4000 watt amp could theoretically demand 4000 watts from the wall (or slightly more) if even for a brief moment. At 4000 watts, that same cord would then be showing a paltry 85 volts at the end of the cable.
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I know voltages of as small as 80V did occur on festivals in the states back in the days, not sure if it does happen these days, but with only 80V you did lose a lot of your amplifier power... Better invest more in cable as in "unused" amplifier power.
 
Re: Recent Talk with a Licensed commercial electrician has me thinking.

Brad - build yourself a poor mans distro. It works, it works well. Get a good circuit tester and slam a few good rack mounted power strips in it. Bond ( ground ) all that chassis together as directed. Look for properly wired circuits around the room on different breakers. One to each strip. Balance you loads across the strips. Keep your stage and mixer power on the same strip.

PS : unless you are in Europe where 16ga is used to a wall outlet, but the voltage is 220 at 50 Hz, the wire jockey is wrong.
 
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