Recommendations for an analog console

Mike Garland said:
I agree. But I also not Require one to get good sound. Ill be buying one asap. But I seriously get the feeling that to most of the people on this forum its more about how much money you spent on your gear than actual skill. I dont need compressors and gates on every channel us stellar eq to get good sound. Honestly I find it sad that so many think they do. They simply do not have the baseline skills apparently. I have run into a lot of snobbs so far. Spending 2 k on a console seems to make sense to them. That is folly. Upgrading later makes much more sense as im doing this as I can afford it. If I followed the advice of the people here I'd have 15k in a system for club size gigs and that just stupid. No one will pay enough to make that system profitable. I dont care what state your in.
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One does not need to use all the internal tools, but they certainly come in handy depending on the gigs you do.
Did a streaming gig yesterday that in theory could be done with a analog mixer and associated cabling, but going digital made it so much easier. One stagerack with the wireless gear side stage, one stagerack at the entertainment position (drums, keys, guitar) and one in the A/V department for video feeds from us and back again with remote speakers, DJ tracks, Q-Lab ++++.
Sending mixes and receiving inputs is a matter of routing and plugging short cables, no need to bring large, heavy multicores.

That's the real advantage of going digital. You have the options available for a whole new infrastructure for your shows and the tools onboard available IF you need them. Need a separate reverb for a mix? Need to automix the presenters? Need a limiter for a broadcast feed? Need do delay a input/output? It's all there.
 
Mike Garland said:
I agree. But I also not Require one to get good sound. Ill be buying one asap. But I seriously get the feeling that to most of the people on this forum its more about how much money you spent on your gear than actual skill. I dont need compressors and gates on every channel us stellar eq to get good sound. Honestly I find it sad that so many think they do. They simply do not have the baseline skills apparently. I have run into a lot of snobbs so far. Spending 2 k on a console seems to make sense to them. That is folly. Upgrading later makes much more sense as im doing this as I can afford it. If I followed the advice of the people here I'd have 15k in a system for club size gigs and that just stupid. No one will pay enough to make that system profitable. I dont care what state your in.
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Mike; First welcome to the Sound Forums. You came here looking for an analog console. There are as you know getting to be less and less analog desk out there. Many here have came back with replies to go to digital. This is from years and years of experience in the live sound industry. I can assure you it's not about spending money in relation to actual skill. It comes from again having spent years , more than 32 myself , mixing in the sound industry. Ether as a full time business, a small money making hobby, or just for fun. I only know a few here but I can assure you they haven't gone to digital because they "don't have the baseline skill" more than likely, like me they have maxed out the analog route and have upgraded, as I did in 2003 to digital. I went kicking and thrashing but in the end it was the logical and practical direction to go. It sounds to me you have all the Analog background with gates, compressor etc. that the jump to digital would be a breeze for you. Spending $2000 on an analog console or spend only $500 more for a digital one is peanuts in the big picture. Sell your analog gear may get it close to a wash. I had many analog setups. All of those large setups I had now pales to my Yamaha 01v96 or Midas M32R digital desks. As I'm sure you know Advice is worth the "computer screen" your reading it on. But at the same time if the majority of people seem to lead a person in one direction perhaps , just perhaps these people are trying to "help you" further your business and career. Think where you may be many years from now. Will you run into some of the people you stated " do not have the baseline skill " and how may they view you? If analog is best for you then by all means I hope you enjoy your new desk and it moves your business plan along. Snapping at people here though I wouldn't think , and I'll admit I've been wrong before , may not move you forward at the very least here. There is a wealth of information here. For me I "hope" I haven't stepped on anyone's toes through the years. One thing I know for sure is there is never a time I won't have something to learn. Certainly in the sound business. Regardless I hope you will continue to increase your business and your future purchases head you in the direct that is best for you.

Kindest Regards;

Douglas R. Allen

A very old picture.
Desk.jpg
 
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Im going to upgrade to a digital setup once I have enough work to justify blowing 15k for a club system. I picked up a console that works great for 300.00, a yahama m3000a, does everything I need it to with tons of headroom. 40 channels, road case, power supply, the whole 9 yards and it will work great for live recording. When things pick up and I can swing the money without issue ill pick up a digital foh setup. Yes, I have to haul more gear but for now im working one venue and have invested all of around 1500.00 and get praised for my effort. Its a installed rig pretty much so none of it is moving. I have a small board for smaller jobs and can also do larger shows if I need to. Keep in mind, im using what I can save each week here, not sitting on a pile of cash
 
Mike, don't misunderstand our motivations or advice - most of us aren't sitting on a pile of money, either (sounds uncomfortable, too).

The shop I manage used to own a couple of M3000. I won't get into some of the minor issues or the 1 major issue we had, but for the money, at the time they were released, they represented a fair value. I think we sold our M3000s for about $2k each so we got out at the right time!

The M3000 will be much happier staying in one place, keep it covered when not in use. The channel insert jacks get dirty (the switching contacts) no matter what; if you get intermittent operation of a channel, "cycle" the jack by inserting and removing a plug several times. This is common on lots of analog consoles, not just Yamaha (Allen-Heath and Soundcraft and Mackie, oh my!).

Let us know how things progress.
 
Tim McCulloch said:
Mike, don't misunderstand our motivations or advice - most of us aren't sitting on a pile of money, either (sounds uncomfortable, too).

The shop I manage used to own a couple of M3000. I won't get into some of the minor issues or the 1 major issue we had, but for the money, at the time they were released, they represented a fair value. I think we sold our M3000s for about $2k each so we got out at the right time!

The M3000 will be much happier staying in one place, keep it covered when not in use. The channel insert jacks get dirty (the switching contacts) no matter what; if you get intermittent operation of a channel, "cycle" the jack by inserting and removing a plug several times. This is common on lots of analog consoles, not just Yamaha (Allen-Heath and Soundcraft and Mackie, oh my!).

Let us know how things progress.
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The one I have is in a cadence road case. Im building a rotisserie for it at work so it can pivot vertical or horizontal to fit through doors and be laid flat by one person instead of 2 or more. Ill only be using it until I can replace it with a digital board.
 
Douglas R. Allen said:
Mike; First welcome to the Sound Forums. You came here looking for an analog console. There are as you know getting to be less and less analog desk out there. Many here have came back with replies to go to digital. This is from years and years of experience in the live sound industry. I can assure you it's not about spending money in relation to actual skill. It comes from again having spent years , more than 32 myself , mixing in the sound industry. Ether as a full time business, a small money making hobby, or just for fun. I only know a few here but I can assure you they haven't gone to digital because they "don't have the baseline skill" more than likely, like me they have maxed out the analog route and have upgraded, as I did in 2003 to digital. I went kicking and thrashing but in the end it was the logical and practical direction to go. It sounds to me you have all the Analog background with gates, compressor etc. that the jump to digital would be a breeze for you. Spending $2000 on an analog console or spend only $500 more for a digital one is peanuts in the big picture. Sell your analog gear may get it close to a wash. I had many analog setups. All of those large setups I had now pales to my Yamaha 01v96 or Midas M32R digital desks. As I'm sure you know Advice is worth the "computer screen" your reading it on. But at the same time if the majority of people seem to lead a person in one direction perhaps , just perhaps these people are trying to "help you" further your business and career. Think where you may be many years from now. Will you run into some of the people you stated " do not have the baseline skill " and how may they view you? If analog is best for you then by all means I hope you enjoy your new desk and it moves your business plan along. Snapping at people here though I wouldn't think , and I'll admit I've been wrong before , may not move you forward at the very least here. There is a wealth of information here. For me I "hope" I haven't stepped on anyone's toes through the years. One thing I know for sure is there is never a time I won't have something to learn. Certainly in the sound business. Regardless I hope you will continue to increase your business and your future purchases head you in the direct that is best for you.

Kindest Regards;

Douglas R. Allen

A very old picture.
View attachment 209414
Click to expand...

I agree. Coming from a repair tech that is learning along the way to use it so that I can properly test it afterwards, the digital consoles also require that knowledge. I almost find the analog consoles easier to learn, if anything some of the digital consoles are more challenging because there's more you can do with them, and you need to know where those adjustments/settings are. Sure some stuff is easier, pros and cons to analog and digital. I'm of course talking about the professional consoles, not the simple ones designed for home or small venues.
I've been repairing consumer electronics since the beginning of 1990, but a few years back because the consumer field was dying, I made the jump to be an in house repair tech at a staging company, so I pick up knowledge wherever I can for fixing everything from lights and lighting consoles, to light mechanical, to speakers and everything in between, basically anything that breaks down.
Cheers
Paul
 
Paul Lewendon said:
I agree. Coming from a repair tech that is learning along the way to use it so that I can properly test it afterwards, the digital consoles also require that knowledge. I almost find the analog consoles easier to learn, if anything some of the digital consoles are more challenging because there's more you can do with them, and you need to know where those adjustments/settings are. Sure some stuff is easier, pros and cons to analog and digital. I'm of course talking about the professional consoles, not the simple ones designed for home or small venues.
I've been repairing consumer electronics since the beginning of 1990, but a few years back because the consumer field was dying, I made the jump to be an in house repair tech at a staging company, so I pick up knowledge wherever I can for fixing everything from lights and lighting consoles, to light mechanical, to speakers and everything in between, basically anything that breaks down.
Cheers
Paul
Click to expand...
 
I did not come here looking for one as much as asking opinions about some. I paid 300.00 for a 40 channel yahama m3000a. I already own the outboard gear I need minus a couple units the main issue I have with digital is the up front cost when im doing this with what I can save each week from my factory worker check.
 
Just curious because I owned a M3000 with a case that we used as a monitor console. It required at least two people with an EZ Tilt or four (or more) people to lift onto a table. It took up a lot of room that many clubs just couldn't provide. Just one of the downsides for an analog mixer even at a bargin price. Not a bad mixer, but no one seemed to like them. It had parametric eq and VCA's that met the tech riders, but when the bands showed up the engineers all said "Oh, one of those". I never really understood that reaction. Mine always worked every time and got the job done,
 
Don Williams said:
Just curious because I owned a M3000 with a case that we used as a monitor console. It required at least two people with an EZ Tilt or four (or more) people to lift onto a table. It took up a lot of room that many clubs just couldn't provide. Just one of the downsides for an analog mixer even at a bargin price. Not a bad mixer, but no one seemed to like them. It had parametric eq and VCA's that met the tech riders, but when the bands showed up the engineers all said "Oh, one of those". I never really understood that reaction. Mine always worked every time and got the job done,
Click to expand...
You had to hear it next to a PM series to fully appreciate the audibility of the shortcuts Yamaha took to hit the price point. The issues seemed to revolve around under-spec'd components. All I can say is Yamaha made things right with us.
 
Don Williams said:
Just curious because I owned a M3000 with a case that we used as a monitor console. It required at least two people with an EZ Tilt or four (or more) people to lift onto a table. It took up a lot of room that many clubs just couldn't provide. Just one of the downsides for an analog mixer even at a bargin price. Not a bad mixer, but no one seemed to like them. It had parametric eq and VCA's that met the tech riders, but when the bands showed up the engineers all said "Oh, one of those". I never really understood that reaction. Mine always worked every time and got the job done,
Click to expand...
Im actually planning to use it on a rotisserie so only one person required as far as that goes and ill only use it for large shows not clubs. I have a mackie 32.8 in the shop having the ribbon cables replaced and a line on a 24 channel A&H board for clubs. Eventually ill be adding a 24 track into the mix for live recording but right now im still buying gear and doing the odd show as they come with all this covid crap. Its picking up but slowly so that gives me a chance to aquire the rest of the gear I still need. Mainly monitor cabs and 4 subs
 
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