Replacing the Presonus 16.4.2 - suggestions please

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Phil Graham

Honorary PhD
Mar 10, 2011
651
1
18
Atlanta, GA
Hey all,

For a number of reasons, I'm going to sell the little Presonus 16.4.2 at church and replace it with something else. When I originally considered boards, I went for the Presonus over an 01V96 for several reasons, three of which were perceived ease of use for other operators, iPad control, and recording. Since the quirks of the Presonus are well-established, I won't belabor them, but at this juncture the benefits no longer outweigh the drawbacks.

What other mixers should I consider at present, other than the 01V96? Again with a mindset towards ease of use for inexperience users? Currently our other operators simply ride mutes and faders from presets that I have compiled on a per source basis.

Desired features:
  • Straightforward interface
  • Adjustable Q on the equalizers
  • Adjustable high pass frequency
  • Ability to pick insert point pre/post eq, dynamics, and fx (we do monitors from FOH)
  • reasonable scene and library capabilities
  • Moving faders and/or iPad interface
  • Same cost class as 01V96 or Presonus 16.4.2

I haven't paid much attention to the products at the bottom of the digital mixer totem pole, so thanks in advance for any and all help,

-phil
 
Re: Replacing the Presonus 16.4.2 - suggestions please

Phil...

Now that they've dropped the price below $2K, I'd say it's a no-brainer:

Qu-16.
 
Re: Replacing the Presonus 16.4.2 - suggestions please

I agree wait for NAMM. But Dick is right the Qu16 is a nice console for the price. Unless you need more channels, it certainly would be my choice. The other options include the Soundcraft EX1 and Behringer X32 Compact but both are $500 more than the A&H.
 
Re: Replacing the Presonus 16.4.2 - suggestions please

Dick Rees said:
Phil...

Now that they've dropped the price below $2K, I'd say it's a no-brainer:

Qu-16.
Click to expand...

Though I am sure it is real nice, I have have a MAJOR beef with the Qu-16. It all boils down to aux sends. essentially we have 7, though there are 10 sends (witch would probably get me by with IEMs) 3 of them are dedicated stereo and as far as I can tell cannot be split up. I hit the wall with my 01v96s a couple of years ago with only 8 aux sends. I find that at least for my needs I tend to run into needing 10-12 with sends for IEMs and FX for the typical wedding bands that I do. So I find the quantity of aux sends on the allen and heath to be an immediate disqualification.

This is of coarse based on my needs. I understand that not everyone has the same needs, but it is something to take into consideration.

If I were you I would be looking squarely in the direction of Behringer. But I would be keeping an eye on what QSC (potentially others, even midas) is doing at NAMM.

Just one opinion, and you know what they say about opinions......

Luke
 
Re: Replacing the Presonus 16.4.2 - suggestions please

Luke Robinson said:
Though I am sure it is real nice, I have have a MAJOR beef with the Qu-16. It all boils down to aux sends. essentially we have 7, though there are 10 sends (witch would probably get me by with IEMs) 3 of them are dedicated stereo and as far as I can tell cannot be split up. I hit the wall with my 01v96s a couple of years ago with only 8 aux sends. I find that at least for my needs I tend to run into needing 10-12 with sends for IEMs and FX for the typical wedding bands that I do. So I find the quantity of aux sends on the allen and heath to be an immediate disqualification.

This is of coarse based on my needs. I understand that not everyone has the same needs, but it is something to take into consideration.

If I were you I would be looking squarely in the direction of Behringer. But I would be keeping an eye on what QSC (potentially others, even midas) is doing at NAMM.

Just one opinion, and you know what they say about opinions......

Luke
Click to expand...

The OP did not specify anything about the number/configuration of auxes. Since the Qu-16 meets all the posted criteria I'll stick to my recommendation. I was unaware of your personal needs when I posted.

Did you buy one without ascertaining whether or not the outputs fit your needs? That would place the fault on you rather than the manufacturer, although with the ME system you can let the muso's dial in their own IEM's and still have all your outputs available for other use.
 
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Re: Replacing the Presonus 16.4.2 - suggestions please

Kemper Watson said:
Even though I've never been on one live, I'm seriously looking at the Soundcraft options. I have a friend that loves his.
Click to expand...

If the little SC digitals tick your boxes for ins/outs/features you should definitely audition one. We own a Si Expression 1. We are very happy with it and based on our experiences with the E1 we plan on buying a pair of Si Performer 2s

All of the budget digitals are juggling power and features vs. price point and all of the manufacturers have slightly different ideas of what is most important and will make their product desirable. There is no clear cut winner - except the buyer.
 
Re: Replacing the Presonus 16.4.2 - suggestions please

Phil Graham said:
Hey all,

For a number of reasons, I'm going to sell the little Presonus 16.4.2 at church and replace it with something else. When I originally considered boards, I went for the Presonus over an 01V96 for several reasons, three of which were perceived ease of use for other operators, iPad control, and recording. Since the quirks of the Presonus are well-established, I won't belabor them, but at this juncture the benefits no longer outweigh the drawbacks.

What other mixers should I consider at present, other than the 01V96? Again with a mindset towards ease of use for inexperience users? Currently our other operators simply ride mutes and faders from presets that I have compiled on a per source basis.

Desired features:
  • Straightforward interface
  • Adjustable Q on the equalizers
  • Adjustable high pass frequency
  • Ability to pick insert point pre/post eq, dynamics, and fx (we do monitors from FOH)
  • reasonable scene and library capabilities
  • Moving faders and/or iPad interface
  • Same cost class as 01V96 or Presonus 16.4.2

I haven't paid much attention to the products at the bottom of the digital mixer totem pole, so thanks in advance for any and all help,

-phil
Click to expand...

The Qu-16 fits nicely into a rack and can record multi-channel using only an external USB hard drive. The iPad app is not as complete as the X32, it has no DCA's and can't be extended to greater than 16 inputs. The channel meter LED's are pitiful (only 3)

The Si Expression can extend up to 66 inputs, and fits nicely into a rack. The iPad app isn't as complete as the X32, the channel meter LED's are weak (only 4), and you can't do multi-track recording without a MADI card.

The X32 Producer fits nicely into a rack, has a decent channel meter (6 leds), but lacks scribble strips and has only 8 faders per layer. If you only need 16 channels, this may be OK for you. The remote application support is supurb having the ability to use an iPad, Android tablet, PC, Linux, or a Mac (up to 10 devices at the same time)

If you don't mind using console vs rack mount, the X32 Compact gives you back your scribble strips making the use of the X32 MUCH easier to navigate (I really don't understand the removal of the scribble strips from the Producer model).

All of these mixers sound better and have many more features than the 16.4.2; however, the full meter bridge on the StudioLive is best in class (16 segments). The X32's are acceptable.

So ... it depends on what you want to do with it.
 
Re: Replacing the Presonus 16.4.2 - suggestions please

Dick Rees said:
The OP did not specify anything about the number/configuration of auxes. Since the Qu-16 meets all the posted criteria I'll stick to my recommendation. I was unaware of your personal needs when I posted.

Did you buy one without ascertaining whether or not the outputs fit your needs? That would place the fault on you rather than the manufacturer, although with the ME system you can let the muso's dial in their own IEM's and still have all your outputs available for other use.
Click to expand...

I was just calling to attention a point that some people might not have noticed. I did not buy one, I looked it over after the announcement and was getting really excited about it for about 10 minutes until I discovered the aux send situation.

I mean no offense to you or allen and heath. I know by reading many posts that you and others are enjoying the console.
 
Re: Replacing the Presonus 16.4.2 - suggestions please

Luke Robinson said:
I was just calling to attention a point that some people might not have noticed. I did not buy one, I looked it over after the announcement and was getting really excited about it for about 10 minutes until I discovered the aux send situation.
Click to expand...

Luke...

I take issue with your rejection of any piece of gear with which you:

1. Have no direct experience and

2. Mistakenly categorize as deficient in a particular area.

With the ME system, any of the A&H digital consoles (iLive, GLD, QU-16) will do up to 19 user-controllable monitor mixes. You're looking at the board itself and forgetting that it's part of a system including direct to disc recording, digital snake/stage box, ME system and more.

This is sort of like faulting a pickup truck for being too small when it has a trailer hitch and is capable of pulling a trailer. And since your personal requirements are different from the OP's, they're not really relevant.
 
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Re: Replacing the Presonus 16.4.2 - suggestions please

So far my X32 Rack is great. I hid it behind the speakers in a six space rack with a power conditioner and a patchbay (so I have the option of using the I/O on the back of the mixer or use the bay in front of the rack). The iPad remote and Ethernet and a laptop are all I have been using. I don't look forward to dragging the full size X32 out anymore. Now I want more X32 racks. I see no reason for buying the digital snake, but that only fits my needs (which are to be as unobtrusive as possible). I have never tried the A&H QU-16 (but it sounds good from what I have heard about it I just don't like having to buy ad ons), and the Soundcraft mixer seems OK (plus the price keeps dropping), but in my opinion all of the budget mixers fall short of the X32 family of mixers right now. If you shop around or buy used you can get a great deal on an X32. With a 3 year warranty and a price tag under 3 grand I can hardly imagine not getting a full ROI before the warranty runs out. The effects on the X32 are quite good and so far I have not run into any glaring deficiencies with the board. I have used it in challenging situations and it has not let me down yet. I still bring an analog backup mixer, but soon I might get a second X32 Rack and forget about analog altogether. The posters above sure have a great point about NAMM being literally days away though.... I think I would wait to see what they have under those drapes before buying anything. Who knows, someone might release an X32 killer this month.
 
Re: Replacing the Presonus 16.4.2 - suggestions please

Dick Rees said:
Luke...

I take issue with your rejection of any piece of gear with which you:

1. Have no direct experience and

2. Mistakenly categorize as deficient in a particular area.

With the ME system, any of the A&H digital consoles (iLive, GLD, QU-16) will do up to 19 user-controllable monitor mixes. You're looking at the board itself and forgetting that it's part of a system including direct to disc recording, digital snake/stage box, ME system and more.

This is sort of like faulting a pickup truck for being too small when it has a trailer hitch and is capable of pulling a trailer. And since your personal requirements are different from the OP's, they're not really relevant.
Click to expand...

Wow, I am sorry that you have taken offense to my posts. I feel Obligated to respond, but I am not looking to participate in a fan boy (apple vs android style) war. I have nothing against Allen and Heath. They make some great products. I was merely pointing out what i feel is a deficiency in this particular product for my needs, witch may or may not reflect the OP's needs.

In response to your metaphor. I used to tow a trailer to all of my gigs with a pickup truck. Now that I have cargo vans, and a box truck I would not like to tow a trailer ever again. Does this mean that pickup trucks are bad. Absolutely not. But they also do not come standard with a trailer.
Trailers are not free, they are an accessory and cost more money. A&H ME systems are also sold at an extra cost. I may not know much but I know that the cost of something almost always affects someones decision on a purchase.
The x32 (rack, producer, or compact) also is capable of 19 mixes and has 14 outputs straight out of the box. For the price of a $50 router and a Free iPhone app they also allow the musicians to control their own mix. Does this mean that the X32 is definitvly a better choice than the Qu-16? Certainly not.

Do all of these posts mean that I harbor any ill will towards Dick Rees or Allen and Heath? Heck NO!

The reason we post things here is pay it forward and try and help people out, with the hope that maybe when we have the need for it the will help us out.

Phil I hope that in some way you have gathered some useful information within the rambling back and forth that Dick and I have been participating in. I am done hijacking your thread...

Sorry Phil
Luke
 
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Re: Replacing the Presonus 16.4.2 - suggestions please

Luke...

This is not a "fan boy" thing. This is all about your coming into a discussion not with anything relating to the OP, but quoting a recommendation and disputing it from a point of view completely outside the criteria listed in the OP. Add to that your erroneous assertions regarding a piece of equipment with which you have no direct experience and your entire post wallows in irrelevance. Warning the world that a particular piece of gear does not suit your particular needs is no great service.

If you're going to waste everyone's time, please find someone else to quote and leave me out of it.

Welcome to the Iggy List...
 
Re: Replacing the Presonus 16.4.2 - suggestions please

Luke Robinson said:
Ok, Now I am just looking for an eduaction.

What was my error? If I missed something about the Qu-16 maybe you can change my opinion on it.

Luke
Click to expand...

No error IMHO. You are correct in that high monitor mix situations are a limitation of the Qu16.

Like you, I pointed out a few deficiencies of the Qu16 that were not specifically mentioned by the OP (pitiful 3 segment LCD channel meters, no expanding beyond 16 channels). I think that these are important things to mention to people. If any of these limitations are important to a specific individual, it would be good to know before your purchased the mixer only to find it didn't meet your needs.

@Ernest Graham,

I am also a recent X32 Rack convert (from a MixWiz). I was very tempted to go to the X32 Compact when they could be purchased for ~ $1700.00. Since one of my goals was to minimize my stage footprint and load in/out space and weight, I stuck to my guns and went with the Rack. Like you, I have been amazed at how easy it is to mix from the tablet, and I don't miss lugging my big analog instrument rack and mixer one little bit ;)

I am surprised when people like yourself who go to tablet mixing from full 32 channel consoles, but I am hearing more and more who are.
 
Re: Replacing the Presonus 16.4.2 - suggestions please

Luke Robinson said:
Ok, Now I am just looking for an eduaction.

What was my error? If I missed something about the Qu-16 maybe you can change my opinion on it.

Luke
Click to expand...

It's not my job to educate you. Read the f***in' manual (available on-line...make sure you get the latest version). I don't know why you'd need any more aux outs than are available on the desk since all the FX engines are interior and do not require using any of the mixes other than the designated FX mixes. So there are not 4 mono and 3 stereo mixes out of the 10 with outs on the rear panel, but 12 counting the two FX buses. There are also extra outputs both analog and digital for feeding various needs.

If you need more than that, you will also need more inputs so it doesn't really make engineering sense to go overboard with mix outs. And as I mentioned, if you need a ton of stereo outs for a bunch of IEM's, that's what the ME system is for...up to 19 musician tweakable mixes.

So how the hell does this console suffer from lack of output capability???

Don't blame the product if you're too thick to understand how to utilize it up to its capacity, DA.
 
Re: Replacing the Presonus 16.4.2 - suggestions please

Scott Bolt said:
No error IMHO. You are correct in that high monitor mix situations are a limitation of the Qu16.
Click to expand...
Scott Bolt said:
Like you, I pointed out a few deficiencies of the Qu16 that were not specifically mentioned by the OP (pitiful 3 segment LCD channel meters, no expanding beyond 16 channels). I think that these are important things to mention to people. If any of these limitations are important to a specific individual, it would be good to know before your purchased the mixer only to find it didn't meet your needs.

@Ernest Graham,

I am also a recent X32 Rack convert (from a MixWiz). I was very tempted to go to the X32 Compact when they could be purchased for ~ $1700.00. Since one of my goals was to minimize my stage footprint and load in/out space and weight, I stuck to my guns and went with the Rack. Like you, I have been amazed at how easy it is to mix from the tablet, and I don't miss lugging my big analog instrument rack and mixer one little bit ;)

I am surprised when people like yourself who go to tablet mixing from full 32 channel consoles, but I am hearing more and more who are.
Click to expand...

I like the big X32, but it was only my misconceptions about iPad mixing that stood in the way of the switch. Once I actually used it in anger and saw how easy it was to manipulate every aspect of your mix, I was hooked on iPad mixing. I also realized that this is the future for all mixing, maybe not now, but the inexorable creep of technology does not stop, one day all mixers we be like this.

I always wanted to create a wireless rack system starting about about 2 years ago and was thinking of using SAC or some DIY rack mixer, but I have no R&D so things crept along pretty slowly. Then came the X32 and I forgot all about it because the damn thing has satisfied my needs and more I didnt even know I had. I would rather buy a second X32 Rack instead of an S16 because I hate snakes, but I am already experimenting on various options. Right now I am using a simple patchbay to move the I/O to the front of the rack, but I imagine some splitters going in there and wireless transmitters to send signal to the mains. I am still learning about what it can do, but I am more impressed the more I learn about it. Just imagine a tiny black box you lay down in a corner out of sight that controls everything wirelessly, just turn on your wireless mics, tune and mix.
 
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Re: Replacing the Presonus 16.4.2 - suggestions please

Dick Rees said:
It's not my job to educate you. Read the f***in' manual (available on-line...make sure you get the latest version). I don't know why you'd need any more aux outs than are available on the desk since all the FX engines are interior and do not require using any of the mixes other than the designated FX mixes. So there are not 4 mono and 3 stereo mixes out of the 10 with outs on the rear panel, but 12 counting the two FX buses. There are also extra outputs both analog and digital for feeding various needs.

If you need more than that, you will also need more inputs so it doesn't really make engineering sense to go overboard with mix outs. And as I mentioned, if you need a ton of stereo outs for a bunch of IEM's, that's what the ME system is for...up to 19 musician tweakable mixes.

So how the hell does this console suffer from lack of output capability???

Don't blame the product if you're too thick to understand how to utilize it up to its capacity, DA.
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ, Dick, did someone stab your dog? Luke doesn't deserve this kind of treatment.

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