Routing Delays on LCR system

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Ben Gingerich

Sophomore
Oct 19, 2012
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Warner Robins Ga
Routing Delays on LCR system
I had a church contact me about putting a LCR (LR band, Center vocals) system in, they have since decided to go MONO. However while in the design phase i was faced with the question of how i would route the delays needed for 105ft deep room with 18ft ceilings in LCR.

Would you duplicate the main clusters half way back, if so would the time arrivals from so many different sources be a big issue if time aligned? Same question if you use a single wider dispersion cab in front of each cluster, or do you use a matrix send to run delays in mono therefore losing LCR for half of the people in the room?

Ben
 
Re: Routing Delays on LCR system

Ben Gingerich said:
Routing Delays on LCR system
I had a church contact me about putting a LCR (LR band, Center vocals) system in, they have since decided to go MONO. However while in the design phase i was faced with the question of how i would route the delays needed for 105ft deep room with 18ft ceilings in LCR.

Would you duplicate the main clusters half way back, if so would the time arrivals from so many different sources be a big issue if time aligned? Same question if you use a single wider dispersion cab in front of each cluster, or do you use a matrix send to run delays in mono therefore losing LCR for half of the people in the room?

Ben
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With a low ceiling-mono is pretty much the only way to go.

With a true cross matrixed system you can sometimes keep the image in the delays-IF the mains still have coverage out to the rear seats and the fills are simply that.

If the fills are needed for actual "hard coverage" it is going to be a mess trying to get it all lined up and working-at least in all the seats.

Some rooms are simply not designed to run certain types of systems

With a low ceiling and kinda deep-a distributed system is pretty much the only way to go.
 
Re: Routing Delays on LCR system

Where I deal with underbalcony fills, etc. with LCR systems then I tend to try to take separate left, center and right signal feeds for each fill speaker and apply appropriate delay, attenuation and EQ to each of those signals. However, it takes quite a bit of DSP to do that.
 
Re: Routing Delays on LCR system

Brad Weber said:
Where I deal with underbalcony fills, etc. with LCR systems then I tend to try to take separate left, center and right signal feeds for each fill speaker and apply appropriate delay, attenuation and EQ to each of those signals. However, it takes quite a bit of DSP to do that.
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Agreed. And if possible having a different highpass for each one of the bands going to each one of the speakers.

Of course it ALSO means a different amp channel for each of the speakers-no daisy chaining speakers allowed here.

Not only does get DSP intensive-but also setup time intensive-with lots of measuring AND listening.

I would argue that if overbalconies are also used the same techniques and DSPs are used-making setup even longer.

I have done a good number of LCR systems with over and under balcony speakers. Typical setup time is on the order of 8 hours or more for a "typical" (whatever that is-------) room of 1500-2000 seats.

Sometimes I would wear a pedometer and it would read on average 5-6 miles when I was done.

So everything gets a bit 'involved".
 
Re: Routing Delays on LCR system

In thinking about this, how would the timing be even close for more than a few people? (I'm thinking open room no balcony)

In a normal mono delay each fill would cover approx 30ft horizontal of listeners space, however in a LCR (or a LR) the person sitting on the right of the fill would be closer to the right cluster and thus farther away from the left cluster and would need a very different time alignment than the person sitting on the left side of the fill.

Do you go with more fills to minimize this effect or is this just one of the tradeoffs that we deal with in live audio?

 
Re: Routing Delays on LCR system

Ben Gingerich said:
In thinking about this, how would the timing be even close for more than a few people? (I'm thinking open room no balcony)

In a normal mono delay each fill would cover approx 30ft horizontal of listeners space, however in a LCR (or a LR) the person sitting on the right of the fill would be closer to the right cluster and thus farther away from the left cluster and would need a very different time alignment than the person sitting on the left side of the fill.

Do you go with more fills to minimize this effect or is this just one of the tradeoffs that we deal with in live audio?
Click to expand...
Sound system alignment is the fine art of compromise-simple as that.
 
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