School

Re: School

Max Warasila said:
A friend of mine who works in the government (of course, I can't tell you where or doing what because I don't even think her family knows...) has found that while people who haven't gone through college aren't necessarily any less intelligent, they "think differently." She attributes it to the fact that because almost all college degrees put you through a base set of classes that are relatively standard, college graduates have been exposed to a similar set of ideas, and end up being able to express their ideas more accurately, creatively, and inventively, as well as have a better sense of understanding ideas that are formed by other people- especially other graduates.
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I was told in college that the main function of college was not to cram facts into my head, but to train me how to think. I agree with that summary. As the brain fills, the pocketbook empties, eh?
 
Re: School

Max Warasila said:
It is truly remarkable how little that says.
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Sorry if emoticons are not clear enough. It means I found the comments amusing.

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I am not the best person to pontificate about higher education, because I tuned in, turned on, and dropped out in the '60s like a few others. All three of my siblings matriculated to higher degrees, and one brother has a PHD from MIT, but i attended college briefly so have an opinion.

I am having a semantic problem with "being trained how to think", or "trained to think differently". I suspect your friend in government means that they view the world differently, and no doubt there are many liberal universities that work to indoctrinate pliable students with their world view. I guess world view can be described as a "way of thinking" but it is not like the typical cognitive training I associate with education that involves problem solving, learning how to learn, etc. I can imagine non-colledge educated people having a slightly different world view when it comes to governance, especially the way they play these days. Programming a specific world view is often called re-education in places like North Korea.

That said I share a near identical world view, or way of thinking, with my older PHD brother despite our dramatically different years spent in college. While perhaps MIT did not teach him the government's preferred way to think. :-) When talking with my brother we often finish each other's comments, we are so in sync.

@Caleb.. +1 it is not about learning facts... for engineering or technical disciplines what passes for modern technology can be obsolete long before a normal career duration, so it is about exposing students to classical fundamental knowledge (like physics, calculus, etc) and then learning how to learn by themselves as that technology evolves. Despite my short matriculation I saved a few of my college texts to keep as references (basic physics does not change much), but sold most of my text books for beer money. :-)

People who know how to learn by themselves will continue to learn for their entire lives, not just when some professor is teaching them "how to think".

I consider education very important, including higher education (do what I say not what I do). But IMO it is all about learning how to learn so you continue to exercise and grow your brain muscle for the rest of your life.

On a more practical note: When hiring engineers I valued their having a degree as evidence that they were exposed to fundamental training in electronics so we shared a common vocabulary when i tried to explain difficult circuitry or concepts. It also demonstrated that they had a discipline (that I didn't) to finish the required course requirements and get their degree.

Apparently for government employment college is an asset too. :-)

JR
 
Re: School

Caleb Dick said:
I was told in college that the main function of college was not to cram facts into my head, but to train me how to think. I agree with that summary. As the brain fills, the pocketbook empties, eh?
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My dad (who was a Doctor of Music) used to tell his students "Our job it not to give you the answers-but rather how to find the answers for yourself-with enough guidance on the search and how to search".

If you come out of any school expecting to know everything-then you are mistaken. The REAL education starts in the field.

i only have a AAS in Electrical Engineering Technology. My wife has her undergraduate in Electrical Engineering (and Masters in Education), yet I had to teach her basic electronics in order for her to pass her FCC exam.

They did not teach her electronics-but rather theory and thought processes-which she is much better than me at.

So they taught here HOW to think (in an electrical kind of way)-yet missed the basics (as far as i was concerned.

It takes both "book learning" and practical field experience to make a well rounded and useful person.

Everything works well in the lab-but the real world is quite different.
 
Re: School

Several folks have mentioned going to school to learn how to think or to learn how to learn, which I generally agree with. But, more specifically, a big part of what you get out of engineering school is a greater capacity for abstraction.

Once you get past basic circuit theory, for example, things get really mathematical. And the math is layer upon layer of abstraction, where a few symbols at a given level represent something more complex at a lower level. And THIS, I believe, is what many people have trouble learning on their own -- I know I did. There are folks who can read through a graduate-level engineering text as they would a detective novel and get it all, but they are few and far between. I find myself "humming through the equations" quite often, hoping to pick up the bigger picture and failing.

In school the old routine of text book, lecture, and, most importantly, doing the problem sets gives you the needed boost. And being around other kids learning the same stuff helps, too.

As an aside, a good pedagogical technique I learned only once I got to grad school is to try to introduce new ideas by moving from the specific to the general, rather than the other way around. Specific instances first, followed by the abstract mathematical theorem. Very often teachers do the opposite, proving the grand general principle on the board (often with little practical motivation), and leaving the intuitive understanding to the student, which may never happen. Working from instance to generalization is a good thing to do when learning something on your own, too, especially when you already know where you're headed because you've got the pretty looking equation sitting in front of you.

--Frank
 
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Re: School

JP,

Refine your people skills. You will deal with people as much as or more than you will deal with equipment - and some of them can make or break your show(s).

Learn ways to communicate with people who are non-technical, and have no idea what your job consists of.

Learn to deal with working consistently long hours while still being perfectly cognizant and capable of executing a show flawlessly. Know your limits.

Make yourself versatile and able to function in capacities that you don't prefer, but can still be viewed as "proficient" in (I don't like lighting, but I can program a show, etc.). You won't always be doing what you love, but you can still do a good job at it.

DO:
- use gloves when handling lighting lamps (lekos/ellipsoidals, etc.)
- know EXACTLY what you are unplugging
- ask how the person you are working for how they prefer their cables coiled
- come prepared to work - mentally, physically, and emotionally - don't bother showing up if you're hungover, wiped out from a previous run of shows, or dealing with personal issues that will distract you and those around you. At that point, you're a liability, and I don't want you on my crew - at least not at that time.
- bring your own mini-maglite, multitool, gloves, and crescent wrench.
 
Re: School

Jordan Wolf said:
don't bother showing up if you're hungover
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In this business, that can sometimes be a challenge. LOL. But seriously, if you're not ready to bust ass, being on the crew isn't where you should be.

The people skills part of the business is the most often glossed over part of the job. The people that are most successful aren't necessarily the most talented, or the most knowledgeable, but are the ones that know enough to do the job and at the same time can communicate with those around them.
 
Re: School

As far as "Engineer", "Engineering" and "Professional Engineer", in the US the legal use of those terms varies by state. The most commmon issue in controlling the terms and requiring properly licensed parties is where something may relate to the health, safety and welfare of the public. For example, in some states a system operator could call themselves an "engineer" but if they are creating a system design for construction or installing systems then they may not be able to do so. However, other states limit the use of "Engineer" and "Engineering" to properly licensed professionals in general.

What keeps getting overlooked in references to licensing and Professional Engineers is the liability aspect. A Professional Engineer is not just committed to knowing how to do a good job, they are assuming directly liablility for their work results and any associated mistakes, errors or omissions. That could be financial penalties or it could be a suspended license or outright losing your license and thus your ability to practice that trade. I just wish anyone wanting to use the term "engineer" would be willing to asume some liability for not just knowing how to do the job but for actually doing it properly and potentially even putting their ability even to perform that type of work on the line every time.


To the OP, the difficulty with commenting on your situation is that we don't know what you were taught or the validity of the information presented. I have unfortunately encountered people who thought they had learned everything from some program only to find out that not only was had they not learned 'everything' but much of what they had learned was wrong and actually had to be 'unlearned' before they could progress. Don't take it personally if a potential employer applies a skills assessment that you feel is beneath you, just do it and show them that you are beyond that.
 
Re: School

Brad Weber said:
Don't take it personally if a potential employer applies a skills assessment that you feel is beneath you, just do it and show them that you are beyond that.
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Good advice, this. A skilled interviewer is trying to determine the shape of your knowledge. That requires them to ask a lot of questions, some of which are not going to sound relevant to the job you're applying for. Answer the best you can, or explain how you'd go about finding the answer, don't be condescending, and have fun. -F
 
Re: School

Great advice everyone. It never fails, whenever I feel like something isn't right or I should be doing something different or curious, I come to here and it sets me straight or helps reinforce what I'm doing right. Multiple heads are better then one!
 
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