Sim VS Smaart

I don't question the frequency resolution of SMAART, so maybe accuracy is a poor choice of words. I wonder about the tradeoff between frequency resolution and time constants in relation to "room" influence or maybe even contamination. The difference I'm trying to explain, to the best of my abilities, is very minute and arguably of no interest to the average user. I'm a very content SMAART user for a decade now, and it's the only difference, by design, I can think of, in reply to the OP. Both Meyer and Rational chose their TC's with great care. I'm only trying to debate the difference. But maybe that doesn't belong in this post.

As for the values in the screenshot of my Excel spreadsheet. Those of SIM3 come from Bob's book. The values for SMAART I reasoned from the smallest frequency increment for each frequency span in MTW in relation to sample rate, smoothing turned off 48 kHz. Since SMAART appearantly uses fewer TC's and in result fewer and different crossovers points between frequency spans, I fashioned the data in a way that IMHO allows for some comparison.

If my assumptions are correct, which I can't prove because AFAIK Rational refuses to disclose these values, SMAART evidently has higher frequency resolution, read detail, but also longer TC's.
 
Re: Sim VS Smaart

I think some of the confusion or mystery is that how the underlying processes operate aren't common knowledge. Even on the most basic level. For example, Smaart does overlapped FFT's, whereas SIM does end to end FFT's. So even if both are doing a 16k FFT there is a difference in process.

I'd started writing a post that described the basic process and illustrated some of the differences. But the post was rather large and I don't know that anyone would even care to read it. Even if read, I don't know that the crunchy process and math bits would even assist anyone in discerning what the impact is. So I stopped writing and decided not to post it.

I am aware of a forum member who does use both v7 and SIM3 and has done a rather detailed comparative study. Well, I know he was working on it, I'm not aware if he completed it. I'm not going to call him out as I know he's a busy guy and I don't want to volunteer his time. Suffice to say that there is real world comparative analysis out there.
 
Re: Sim VS Smaart

Be mindful of the type of averaging set in Smaart. Smaart 7 offers both Polar (RMS) and Complex (Vector) types of averaging. This does affect how much of the room in included in the measurement. Polar (RMS) averaging includes a lot of the "room's" influence in the measurement, whereas the Complex (Vector) averaging rejects more of the "room" in the measurement. Certainly worth experimenting with. This setting is found in the Global TF settings in the measurement config window.
 

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Re: Sim VS Smaart

So it's not a lab test but a comparison of data i took from a measurement this week .

Meyer Sound SIM3 vs Rational Acoustics SMAART7 | Timo's World all around the globe

I like using both programs so i'm not really biased to either 1 as long as the outcome is ok .
I had to work pretty fast so some of the data taken from this measurement might not be really accurate i'm sorry to say but it's a start .
 
Re: Sim VS Smaart

Timo Beckman said:
So it's not a lab test but a comparison of data i took from a measurement this week .

Meyer Sound SIM3 vs Rational Acoustics SMAART7 | Timo's World all around the globe

I like using both programs so i'm not really biased to either 1 as long as the outcome is ok .
I had to work pretty fast so some of the data taken from this measurement might not be really accurate i'm sorry to say but it's a start .
Click to expand...

What do you think the issue is just above 1kHz where the mag drops and phase jumps, and there is no drop in coherence?
 
Re: Sim VS Smaart

@ helge do not know . Maybe 1 of the guy's from rational knows how to do this .

@ Matt I had the same problem with the Mid-highs in the first screenshot (big jumps just past 4K) . There's about 10 drivers in this 1 cabinet .
So if i get to close to it i'll see multiple drivers and jumps in the phase and magnitude screen . If i take more distance from the cab coherence is going to drop but the ratio in distance difference between the multiple drivers reduces and the phase is going to flatten out a bit more but it will get harder to make choices regarding x-over/allpass filters .

Also this is a brand new product and this is a good start but not the final product . There was no foam(? sorry i'm from the Netherlands so sometimes my english fails me) on the inside of the cab so this still has to be done . We just needed to test this before moving forward . Specially the onax vs ofax was something we needed to know and it came out rather well (could be better but not bad at all for a first try).

To bad the intelli-x processor doesn't have elliptic filters up to now like the xta or Galileo has . They make the sound more natural (sorry can't put it in any other words) .

For the rest of it : it's a comparison of data between both analyzers which is not done at this time (still need to compare some other stuff but that's for another measurement session :-) I had to do 3 more products after this 1 so i was happy to get this done and the 3 other measurements on 1 day .

@matt again the jumps are definitely multiple drivers
011simlmstrtvslowmidend.png
In the image above you see in the blue line a semi straight line from 315 to just past 500 a jump and than on to just before 1k and on it goes . I see this also if i'm to close to a line array in the low to mid frequency range where the response is going from omni to slightly directional until you get to the high drivers which are directional .
You can also see the same behavior a bit in the lower frequencies at the high mid section . I was pretty close to the cabinet . When i took a bit more difference it started to level out more and walking the room gave me a pretty good idea about this product .
 
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Re: Sim VS Smaart

Helge Dr. Bentsen said:
Nice piece of work.

Is it possible for Smaart to display the same kind of help lines in the phase window as Sim when the phase goes from -180 to +180?
I find them really helpful, but I haven't found a setting for this in Smaart.
Click to expand...

Helge,

We refer to those connecting lines as 'racks', and no Smaart v7 does not support them; though older versions did. It's not real data and tends to clutter up the display, thus we omitted them.

-A
 
Re: Sim VS Smaart

@helge in this case the help lines at the wrap arounds are a bit to much for my taste .
So i like the smaart window below the sim screen shot better . But it's a matter of taste . I do not have a preference but have to say when i started working with smaart it took me a few days to get used to not having those lines at the wrap around :-)
005bsimupanofvsupa12dbbuthp.png
005bsmaart.png
 
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