smaart 7 how many mics ?

Re: smaart 7 how many mics ?

In the same vein, which do you think would be more useful: multiple mics, or multiple pick off points for the reference?



I know you can patch through a monitor out on many boards so you can test various buses, but do you think it is worthwhile in the field to also pick off say post system eq or post dsp?



I have a MOTU traveler hybrid which gives me 2 mic preamps, but has 8 additional line level inputs.



Of course the first time I ever set up in a venue (I am new to this), I got about halfway through checking when an employee of the venue picked up the mic and moved it, without saying a thing to me.
 
Re: smaart 7 how many mics ?

I have four mics, but rarely use more than two and in most cases just use one. The number of mics I use usually depends on how many systems the PA is made of (infill oufill etc.) In larger venues like arenas and convention centers I typically have a FOH mic and a ''travler'' mic that is on a super long cable. You don't need more than one reference but you can probe electronics without microphones and compair them to the reference if you need to.
 
Re: smaart 7 how many mics ?

David Stiles wrote on Wed said:
how many mics on average are u guys using for live analysis?

im thinking to upgrade,,maybe slowly,,and am considering a digidesign 002r as the interface,but it only has 4 pre's.

second hand it is around twice the price of a new beh..... ada8000.

any preferences/comments?
Click to expand...

I use up to 7. I wish there was an internal loopback function so I could use 8. My measurement cart is set up for 8 mics-with cable reels-stands etc.
 
Re: smaart 7 how many mics ?

I am typically measuring at gigs, with load ins in the morning and shows in the evening, so I have to be about efficiency. If I am tweaking an install I use as many mics as needed (well, up to 4) because time is less of an issue. If you are gigging I can almost garuntee you will be using one ore two mics the majority of the time.
 
Re: smaart 7 how many mics ?

Brandon G Romanowski wrote on Wed said:
I am typically measuring at gigs, with load ins in the morning and shows in the evening, so I have to be about efficiency. If I am tweaking an install I use as many mics as needed (well, up to 4) because time is less of an issue. If you are gigging I can almost garuntee you will be using one ore two mics the majority of the time.
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I would totally agree. What you use and how you approach a system can vary greatly.



But once you have spent some time (uninterupted with no time pressure) with a multimic setup and really seeing what is happening around the room and in different parts of the system, it can be a real eye opener. It has been for me.



In the trenches you have to do what you have to and make the best of it.



In the install world-a lot higher level of consistancy is expected.
 
Re: smaart 7 how many mics ?

Ivan Beaver wrote on Wed said:
But once you have spent some time (uninterupted with no time pressure) with a multimic setup and really seeing what is happening around the room and in different parts of the system, it can be a real eye opener. It has been for me.



In the trenches you have to do what you have to and make the best of it.



In the install world-a lot higher level of consistancy is expected.
Click to expand...



Touring we almost never used more than one. Here it's a different story. Previous to this version Smaart was used as a quick, down and dirty or single mic solution. The tweaking was done via SIM because of the multiple branch configuration. When one of these systems is measured we typically get a couple of days (or overnights) so the time is there. The tool choice will likely change now for some. We've used our 003, but only because the latest drivers for the Sound Devices pre and Snow Leopard don't work. I expect in the next six months or so at least on our show we'll have 8 mic Smaart capability.



Dave

 
Re: smaart 7 how many mics ?

I've been using 6 mics for 5 years. I found realistically 4 is enough. I have to be done with my work quick because I do not live in the install world but a few days a year. I work fast unless I'm investigating something new (experimenting), or documenting/ organizing my traces for some other purpose. Dragging 6 long cables around an arena is a drag. Lectrosonics makes a great system for that, which I have yet to budget for, but have used successfully. The result I get from 4 is almost as good as 6, but saves 2 cables. I'm currently carrying 1 M30, and 4 M23s, all pretty much brand new. and I'm very pleased with them, but 4 ECM8000s will work under most conditions. I use 3-4 mics for live spatial averaging. This is where several transfer functions are averaged together to show the common attributes of the speaker/room. This trace is good for EQ decisions, especially with line arrays which tend to have a radically different response from seat to seat. Can you say heavy combing? Some of us have been experimenting with averaging out the ground bounce and that works quite well too. When setting delays between systems, I'm still using 1 mic at a time. The rest of the time I use the mics to see various systems in their zones individually and with the entire system on (like what Ivan describes). (Ivan, the loop back is here, and it works with the MOTU just fine.) The Octa Pre is the must have I/O for multichannel Smaart rigs currently. I have had regular access to a SIM3 for the past 4 years. It just takes too long to set up. My measurement rig is up and running in about 10 minutes, another 20 for the mics, stands, and cables..... Takes me a solid hour (or more) to get the SIM set up and programmed, faster on a tour, but then so is the Smaart rig. Generally I can be done making the measurements and corrections in less time than it takes me to set up the rig. It's plenty fast enough for a tour. On an arena show I would want the RF rig and I would want a helper to run mics, but I'm certain with the same team everyday and the RF kit, the work could be done "right" in about an hour per day or less, assuming no real problems are found in the process.
 
Re: smaart 7 how many mics ?

I usually travel with 8 mics...because I can! You can get a decent average with 3 or 4 mics if you're so constrained, but you need to make good choices in mic position. It often takes me longer to set up 8 mics than it does for me to optimize a sound system now!
 
Re: smaart 7 how many mics ?

Arthur Skudra said:
With Smaart 7.3, there is an internal loopback function available, so that you can do 8 mics with your interface if you wish! :)
Click to expand...

That internal loopback update is awesome, just makes things so much cleaner to setup and indeed gives me more inputs.

As far as mics, I only have a Motu Ultralite so I only use 2 at a time, but I find even this is quite a good timesaver for getting multiple measurements when you have quite a bit of time pressure.
 
Re: smaart 7 how many mics ?

My advice would be to get 3 matched mic's of the best quality you can afford. Why? most things we do are comparing 3 points. On axis to off axis horizontal L-R, on axis to off axis back/front, On axis A to x overAB to on axis B etc. With 3 mic's :one run to in the field to move them and you have 6 measurements, most times enough to make an averaged magnitude response.

When that's said I use only 1 mic 90 pct of the time. I have done several tests and I just work faster with remote controlling Smaart (and the processor) and only have to "analyze" one measurement at the time. In average, the time it takes me, to put up 3 mic's, verify them, and capture 3 measurements and validate them. I can get 4 measurements with a single mic and Im faster to validate them (no hide/unhiding). a small pice of tape on the floor makes it really easy to get back and measure in the "same position" again.
So guess it depends on how you can /(like to) work. If you have to run back and forth to the console/processor its properly easier to have more mic's. If you ,like me, want to be in the field with the mic, you can get a lot done with only one.
 
Re: smaart 7 how many mics ?

Dave Stiles said:
how many mics on average are u guys using for live analysis?

im thinking to upgrade,,maybe slowly,,and am considering a digidesign 002r as the interface,but it only has 4 pre's.

second hand it is around twice the price of a new beh..... ada8000.

any preferences/comments?
Click to expand...

I'm using 4 mics, but could deal with 3. If I were to max out, I'd stop at 7. The new loopback function is nice, but could potentially skew the transfer function, depending on the interface you use.

I'm using the Focusrite Saphire Pro40. I like it, in part because it has ADAT ports that I can connect to my 01v96. If I had it do over, I might consider the Roland Octa-Capture. The main reasons being the following:

* It has 8 pre's, but is small enough to fit in my laptop bag.
* USB interface means I'm not limited to laptops with firewire, or aftermarket firewire that might not work.
* It's solidly built, and has plenty of great reviews.
 
I think this is our first thread dredged back up from obscurity... I am so proud!

I am well on my way to using 2-3 mics regularly. I can naturally get what I need done with one but I am wasting a fair amount of time. I would love to have an OctoPre but instead I use a pair of Smaart I/Os since they are smaller, and one really acts as a backup for the other. My main goal is to have a measurement setup I can deploy in 5 minutes out of my carry on sized Pelican case, and a lot of that is filled with prediction related tools like laser distance meters and hygrometers. And mic stands. And adapters. And multimeters. And cable testers.
 
Re: smaart 7 how many mics ?

Hmm,

Which would be faster and more cost effective in practice?

8 mics with cables and stands into an octopre...

or

1 mic on stand through Lectrosonics wireless?
 
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