Small install spkrs with narrow coverage

Re: Small install spkrs with narrow coverage

I've seen a design in an old console record player that has a driver facing the rear of the cabinet from the front baffle, at the back was a parabolic dish that bounced the sound out the baffle the driver was mounted on. ( think backward coax )
It had a very narrow pattern. I've seen a few other designs like it but all were pre 70's.

you could take a sat TV dish and position a small coax driver like the B&C 5 incher in a small box or a PVC hunk of pipe, on the arm pointing into it.
depending on the location to the dish you could alter the coverage to be very narrow.

don't give me the # s Ivan, it will work and sound pretty good.
 
Re: Small install spkrs with narrow coverage

Hello

Distributed system with delayed rows, that are facing to the rear of the room work actually quite well. Have something "proper" above the screen as proposed and provide support with delayed rows about every 5 meters Set the volume of rows so low, that they only support the sound arroving from front. A system processor like Behringer Ultradrive will allow you to have stereo in - main mono+sub and 4 mono delay lines.

Guaranteed it is going to be bad, if the speakers are facing straight down...
 
Re: Small install spkrs with narrow coverage

Glenn Adams said:
I've seen a design in an old console record player that has a driver facing the rear of the cabinet from the front baffle, at the back was a parabolic dish that bounced the sound out the baffle the driver was mounted on. ( think backward coax )
It had a very narrow pattern. I've seen a few other designs like it but all were pre 70's.

you could take a sat TV dish and position a small coax driver like the B&C 5 incher in a small box or a PVC hunk of pipe, on the arm pointing into it.
depending on the location to the dish you could alter the coverage to be very narrow.

don't give me the # s Ivan, it will work and sound pretty good.
Click to expand...

Give him the #'s, Ivan. I'm interested to have some actual facts and measurement parameters if they're available.
 
Re: Small install spkrs with narrow coverage

Glenn Adams said:
I've seen a design in an old console record player that has a driver facing the rear of the cabinet from the front baffle, at the back was a parabolic dish that bounced the sound out the baffle the driver was mounted on. ( think backward coax )
It had a very narrow pattern. I've seen a few other designs like it but all were pre 70's.

you could take a sat TV dish and position a small coax driver like the B&C 5 incher in a small box or a PVC hunk of pipe, on the arm pointing into it.
depending on the location to the dish you could alter the coverage to be very narrow.

don't give me the # s Ivan, it will work and sound pretty good.
Click to expand...

But a parabolic dish speaker would not be small-it still has size-which is the whole idea.

In order to have a narrow pattern (down to any decently low freq) you HAVE to have physical size.

Just look at Meyers products that use a 2" driver exactly like you describe. The product is LARGE.

If there are any examples that prove otherwise I am all ears.
 
Re: Small install spkrs with narrow coverage

Glenn Adams said:
you could take a sat TV dish and position a small coax driver like the B&C 5 incher in a small box or a PVC hunk of pipe, on the arm pointing into it.
depending on the location to the dish you could alter the coverage to be very narrow.

don't give me the # s Ivan, it will work and sound pretty good.
Click to expand...

I would also argue that simply using a 5" coax that has a very different patterns for the low and highs would make a LOUSY driver for parabolic dish type system.

Because of the different coverage patterns-different freq would hit the dish at different points and the arrival times would be REALLY SCREWED UP when they got to the listener.

So while "something" would be narrower-you would not want to listen to it.
 
Re: Small install spkrs with narrow coverage

Ivan Beaver said:
I would also argue that simply using a 5" coax that has a very different patterns for the low and highs would make a LOUSY driver for parabolic dish type system.

Because of the different coverage patterns-different freq would hit the dish at different points and the arrival times would be REALLY SCREWED UP when they got to the listener.

So while "something" would be narrower-you would not want to listen to it.
Click to expand...
While it has no bearing on the OP, one of the interesting features of a parabolic dish is the pattern of the sound source makes virtually no difference in the output, as long as it originates at the focal point.

I have used a 11 degree conical horn, full range speakers, and small two-way monitors as the sound source using a 60 " parabolic dish, and later a 45" square dish. In every case, sound was quite coherent in excess of 500 feet.
Pattern control widens from about 10 degrees up high down to omni low, so at distance the sound "thins out", and at very long distance, HF air attenuation cuts HF, but there is nothing "really screwed up", other than a very narrow pattern.
 
Re: Small install spkrs with narrow coverage

http://www.meyersound.com/sites/default/files/sb-1_ds.pdf
Looks like someone beat me to it. I know nothing about Meyer stuff.
A 4 inch comp driver.

I think a full range single or coax driver in a hunk of PVC to act as a wave guide into anything, a trash can lid, sat dish to a saucer sled will be enough for a test.

Small at 18" by 3" for the dish with a coffee can about 6-8 inches out in front. The nice thing about the SAT dish is that the feed horn area is out of the way of the pattern of the reflector.

Thanks to Ivan remembering the SB-1 we all know it works and works well enough for Meyer to make and sell them.
Don't be afraid to try something, it is how most inventions are made; inspiration and perspiration outweigh calculation every time.

So Ivan, if a 5 inch coax gets strange into a parabolic reflector but it sums just right into a paraline lens with no cancelations what so ever, not to mention all the ping ponging of the sound wave through that oval gap back to that slit in perfect time/amplitude power response, from 2 very different drivers - Hum, I wonder what is going on there?

Thanks for the backup info Art.
 
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Re: Small install spkrs with narrow coverage

Peter - For a sub I would suggest something like a Bose Wave Cannon mounted up in the rafters.
 
Re: Small install spkrs with narrow coverage

Glenn Adams said:
http://www.meyersound.com/sites/default/files/sb-1_ds.pdf
Looks like someone beat me to it. I know nothing about Meyer stuff.
A 4 inch comp driver.

I think a full range single or coax driver in a hunk of PVC to act as a wave guide into anything, a trash can lid, sat dish to a saucer sled will be enough for a test.

Small at 18" by 3" for the dish with a coffee can about 6-8 inches out in front. The nice thing about the SAT dish is that the feed horn area is out of the way of the pattern of the reflector.

Thanks to Ivan remembering the SB-1 we all know it works and works well enough for Meyer to make and sell them.
Don't be afraid to try something, it is how most inventions are made; inspiration and perspiration outweigh calculation every time.

So Ivan, if a 5 inch coax gets strange into a parabolic reflector but it sums just right into a paraline lens with no cancelations what so ever, not to mention all the ping ponging of the sound wave through that oval gap back to that slit in perfect time/amplitude power response, from 2 very different drivers - Hum, I wonder what is going on there?

Thanks for the backup info Art.
Click to expand...
Actually the parabolic lens idea was used back in the 60s at some festivals-so the Meyer products are not the first to use the idea.

I have never actually used a multiway driver with a parabolic dish-so I was just "guessing" at what would happen with the different sound sources hitting the dish at different points causing different time arrivals.

In the Danley SBH10-we are doing some "unusual" things to the driver-how it is mounted an so forth so that the entire full bandwidth is entering each paraline lens from a single point.

I can't go into details-but let's just say it is just like our synergy horns and how they sum together at a single point.

Think of it like a synergy horn (so you have a single source of sound origin) mounted to a paraline lens (for pattern shaping).

It is nowhere nearly as simple as a coax mounted to a paraline lens-that would be all screwed up.

When you have sound sources that start as a single point-it is much easier to "manipulate" them the way you want.
 
Re: Small install spkrs with narrow coverage

Ivan Beaver said:
Actually the parabolic lens idea was used back in the 60s at some festivals-so the Meyer products are not the first to use the idea.

I have never actually used a multiway driver with a parabolic dish-so I was just "guessing" at what would happen with the different sound sources hitting the dish at different points causing different time arrivals.

In the Danley SBH10-we are doing some "unusual" things to the driver-how it is mounted an so forth so that the entire full bandwidth is entering each paraline lens from a single point.

I can't go into details-but let's just say it is just like our synergy horns and how they sum together at a single point.

Think of it like a synergy horn (so you have a single source of sound origin) mounted to a paraline lens (for pattern shaping).

It is nowhere nearly as simple as a coax mounted to a paraline lens-that would be all screwed up.

When you have sound sources that start as a single point-it is much easier to "manipulate" them the way you want.
Click to expand...

your guess would be right if it were out there without some guide.

Helmholtz would be proud. The video gave me some clues that it was not a driver mounted on the paraline based on the entry diameter. 3 or 4 inches would be my guess.
 
Re: Small install spkrs with narrow coverage

Glenn Adams said:
The video gave me some clues that it was not a driver mounted on the paraline based on the entry diameter. 3 or 4 inches would be my guess.
Click to expand...
The lens is basically the same as in the video-but the way the driver mounts is very different.

On other products that use a simple compression driver-the mounting is as shown (or pretty close anyway for simplicity sake-some of the little things are not show in the video) on the video.
 
Re: Small install spkrs with narrow coverage

Brad Weber said:
Another use of a parabolic reflector with a small driver, Sound Dome Directional Speakers- Brown Innovations and Soundtube Entertainment Secret Sound (Focused-Point Parabolic Speakers) - SoundTube. The low end response and output are limited but I have used these types of speakers successfully in museum and visitor center applications.
Click to expand...

Very cool stuff Brad. Real narrow coverage with them. Maybe too narrow for this purpose but interesting. One more tool for the toolbox.
 
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