Snake problems

Re: Snake problems

W. Mark Hellinger said:
Snakes should generally be coiled in either an "under-over" or "figure-8" manner... or rolled up on a reel. How ever you do it, the end result should be that when the snake is laid out, there are no twists in it. With EWI snakes (and probably most snakes), the labeling on the outer jacket should be straight down the jacket. If it isn't, then there's twists in the snake.I'd say that two most likely issues that kill snakes are twists and getting driven over. Having said that... if keeping twists out of your snake is difficult: There are snakes out there which are constructed with trunks that (IME) are more difficult to twist than the EWI snakes (WW blue and that tough grey Belden snake cable are a couple of examples). The EWI snakes are fairly susceptible to twisting, but on the other hand, the EWI snakes are constructed with the intent of being fairly flexible, i.e.: coil and lay arguably easier over a wider range of temperatures than a snake that's more difficult to twist. This twisting issue can be serious and is part of the reason why I promote the use of reel snakes for those who are using longer snakes and the over-under or figure 8 thing just doesn’t seem to materialize, since with a reel snake, typically the snake comes off the reel straight, and goes back on the reel straight, even though, admittedly, a reel snake does have other potential issues (snakes getting reeled on too tight, more stuff that can get broken, etc…)
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I have a 16 channel EWI for FOH that is 150 feet, a 8 channel drive snake that is 150 feet, and a 50 foot 16 channel drop snake. The drop snake gets figured 8 into a m40 trunk that also carries the rest of my stage cabeling. The longer snakes are over undered in a LARGE coil. Still O think it is important to lay the entire thing out every couple of shows to knock the twists out. I think a lot of problems come from only using part of the length and then recoiling without laying the whole length out.The one snake in my life that is acting exactly like the OP is a medium duty ProCo drop snake that belongs to a band. Because I am not the only person coiling it, it seems to have a different twist everytime I lay it out.
 
Re: Snake problems

When coiling a snake (or any other cable for that matter), depending on the cable... one rule of thumb is that the minimum coil diameter should be no-less than approx. 24X the diameter of the cable being coiled. Therefore, a 1" thick snake cable shouldn't be coiled any tighter than a 24" diameter circle.
 
Re: Snake problems

I've had this same problem with a number of our (day job) Whirlwind hybrid cables. I just spin the strain relief off, go back about 5', stretch the jacket toward the connector, and spin the strain relief back on. When the problem is on a fan, it may be rather tricky getting the edge of the jacket back under the shrink.
 
Re: Snake problems

Tim Padrick said:
I've had this same problem with a number of our (day job) Whirlwind hybrid cables. I just spin the strain relief off, go back about 5', stretch the jacket toward the connector, and spin the strain relief back on. When the problem is on a fan, it may be rather tricky getting the edge of the jacket back under the shrink.
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I've been pulling weeds in the veggie-garden most of the day (my 4th gig was on Friday… got that out of the way early on)... and have been trying (while pulling weeds) to get my head around this phenomenon: why the jacket of a snake pulls back when a snake is twisted. Of-course, when something is twisted, it gets shorter... at least till stuff starts to break. Anyhoo... It stands to reason that the outer conductors (of a snake) would shorten more-so relatively in relationship to the inner conductors... and of-course, since the outer jacket of a snake is in contact with the outer conductors... the jacket will be pulled back when the outer conductors relatively shorten due to twisting the entire bundle. I believe the problem is compounded when the snake is laid in the sun, heats, everything somewhat normalizes in a twisted state... the copper conductors stretch out, but the jacket doesn't... metal tends to push metal, where-as PVC doesn't really push PVC, the PVC just gets a little fatter. And then it's further compounded when the twisted snake is coiled and stowed, and cools down... kind of does a Chinese finger trap sort of thing where the conductors shrink somewhat, the outer jacket stayed in place where it was at when the snake was hot... then when the whole mass cools down and shrinks some, the contracting outer conductors pulls the jacket back a little more (repeat a few dozen or hundred times and it gets ugly).

Anyhoo... probably the best way to avoid whatever it is that gets the jacket out of sync with the conductors when a snake is twisted and repeatedly heated and cooled is to just keep the twists out of the snake.

BTW: I personally believe that a few twists in a hundred plus foot snake probably isn't that big of deal... but I have had snakes sent to me for rehabilitation (numerous mfg. brands) where there was on the order of a twist every couple of feet the entire length of the snake... and basically universally, twists in a snake of that magnitude caused problems that were pretty much hopeless.
 
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Re: Snake problems

Tim Padrick said:
I've had this same problem with a number of our (day job) Whirlwind hybrid cables. I just spin the strain relief off, go back about 5', stretch the jacket toward the connector, and spin the strain relief back on. When the problem is on a fan, it may be rather tricky getting the edge of the jacket back under the shrink.
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Tim:

You could try adding some additional shrink tube over the existing shrink tube (although you'll probably be doctoring the symptom rather than treating the problem). Admittedly, stuffing all the fantail ends through a "just right" sized piece of shrink tube can be daunting (or impossible)... but I've found that generally shrink tube can be "sized up" to somewhere around double or more it's before shrink diameter by stretching it out with long needle nose pliers or tin snips... and even though it's been sized up, it will still shrink down to it's full shrunk down size with no detrimate to the tubing.
 
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Re: Snake problems

Is that what they call that tape now? Back in the early 80s, in the Air Force, they called it F4 tape. Great stuff. Could never find it outside the military till you posted that link. Thanks for that.

Douglas R. Allen said:
http://www.tommytape.com/?gclid=CJWeuuas4qkCFQPc4AodcmxEZQ

I find Tommy Tape works great for these kind of problems. Stays on well and can be removed with a knife,razor blade etc. if you need to take it off. Stretch it a little more than they show in the video for best results.

Douglas R. Allen
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Re: Snake problems

I have had this happen with a few of my EWI snakes. All it is is the heat shrink comes a bit loose after a lot of use. Either re shrink it or wrap it with some E Tape. It's a budget snake after all (and the best of all budget ones) so I do not mind having to give it a bit of love every now and then.
 
Re: Snake problems

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS said:
I have a couple stage snakes from them that have had the outer sheath shrink a little but I have not lost any channels. My belief is that the hot weather has caused it. Losing channels is something else more than likely. Open your connectors and see if the bad channels are in need of re-soldering. There is an easy fix to your problem. It takes a little while to do but I find it is worth it. Put a longer piece of shrink tubing on the cable. You will have to take some but not all of the connectors off and then resolder them when you are done so start with the bad channels. This has also happened to me on other brands of snakes too. Again, I think that the heat here has a lot to do with it.
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I thought heat made things expand not contract.
 
Re: Snake problems

Charlie Zureki said:
Hmmm

Seems like a simple call to Audiopile may have solved this problem....instead of posting on the Forum.
Hammer
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I thought this is what the forum was for. To post our experiences and learn from others...good or bad. There are numerous topics here that are "Problem with products."
 
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Re: Snake problems

Jamin Lynch said:
I thought heat made things expand not contract.
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I believe you're correct; however, different things expand and contract somewhat differently when heated and cooled. Much like railroad rail, I'd imagine copper wire expands fairly consistently (mass relative) in all 3 dimensions... and of-course it's "long" dimension is the most massive dimension, so I'd imagine copper wire gets noticeably longer as it gets hotter. I suspect the outer casting on a snake also expands in all dimensions, and it's "long" dimension is also it's most massive, but: The outer casing is generally PVC, not metal (if you hit a nail with a hammer, even a copper nail, you can generally drive the nail into a piece of wood... not so likely attempting to drive a piece of PVC into a piece of wood with a hammer)... so if the snake has a bunch of kinks in it, my theory is that the outer casing can't lengthen out with the copper conductors when the whole mass heats and expands (because it's impeded by the irregularity of the twisted snake), so the outer casing just gets puffier and bunches up some. If the snake was not kinked and twisted, the casing probably wouldn't be inhibited in expanding length-wise when it heats... and would follow the expansion of the conductors. Then, when the whole mass of a kinked and twisted snake cools off, the slightly bunched up outer casing cools in-place, chokes up a bit... and thus becomes just a tad shorter relative to the conductors. Repeated many times, and the outer casing becomes noticeably shorter than the conductors.

That's my theory anyway... I've been pulling weeds and mowing most of the day and thinking about it some more.
 
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Re: Snake problems

Jamin Lynch said:
I thought this is what the forum was for. To post our experiences and learn from others...good or bad. There are numerous topics here that are "Problem with products."
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Product discussions via direct communication or through a public forum matters not to me. Spew away (I say)... it's all good.

I know you have a crew Jamin and I don't know how intimate you are with your gear. Concerning the snake you sent me about a year ago for a freshen up, I don't recall if I sent you a report of it's condition when I received it? If not, and if you were possibly somewhat unaware of it's condition, I remember the snake well (I fixed it) and I vividly remember the condition it was in when I received... and I'd be happy to send you my assessment privately or post it publicly here (it's your call).

I suspect I know why the jacket on your snake(s) is creeping back.

But more to the spirit of the forum: I look forward to discussions like this, because: I use the products I sell, but: I don't put them through all the same paces other folks might ... so discussions like this are like raceday... where the observant can probably learn more from the other drivers and cars as they can from their own.

I have employees... and sometimes, I swear they could break a bowling ball in a plowed field. If, because of your application, you need a snake (or snakes) that can withstand a lot of twisting, or you need a snake (or snakes) that are very difficult to twist (therfore making their ability to withstand twisting a moot point)... then the EWI snakes would not be a good choice for that application.
 
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