Just doing a little research on some Com systems. Is there an industry standard series? Are people still going wired or is everything wireless at this point. Wondering what people have been seeing out on gigs and what type of events they are.
Whats the best Com system to have for rental inventory
- Thread starter Ben Lawrence
- Start date
Clearcom Freespeak is very popular & very expensive. Clearcom wired comm is the defacto standard although 'Pro Intercom' makes a compatible lower cost version. At least in corporate its a mix of wired & wireless.
Cool, Going to do some looking at those. Thanks for the reply. Probably throw in a saved search in ebay or something if a whole kit comes up. The prices I was seeing on the Arcadia my last client inquired about were steep.
RF over fiber im told is very common as RF wireless comms dont go thru concrete However some of the more proper venues are starting to put complex DAS distributed antennae systems or use WiFi Poe style devices to create a mesh network. Redial for example is likely the leader in this department.
Clear com is tried and true. Even the old analog stuff can still get used and can be found likely on eBay or even military surpluses at least thats where I bought my first intercom back in the 90s.
A tougher question to ask is where does one get training in intercom usage and as an audio engineer how does one get video to STFU with out being mean, lol.
RAD or Reidel or Clear-Com would be where my money went. Not holding my breath for a DMX color changing flasher for FOH, someday that would be cool, but a flasher is a good think to have at FOH, most put gaff tape on it to dim the light, pretty common stuff.
As for wired vs wireless, it depends, im a bear claws stone knife person my self, a party line pbox used for golf tournaments for example works pretty good Or a wired rig or even a telephone as if at FOH, id rather not have on a headset.
Headsets are like fashion accessories, I look for things like left and right ear or options like when you raise the boom mic does it mute the mic etc.
Someday I’ll build a headphone system for foh that pipes cell phone, intercom and two solo busses, but im currently not sitting at a FOH so no need at the moment. Im still just another online internet audio junkie, lol.
I should also note that there are some cell phone iPhone apps that church’s use I think it works on a licensing scheme dont recall the names off the top of my head there are at least three or four.
Good luck let us know what you chose,
Clear com is tried and true. Even the old analog stuff can still get used and can be found likely on eBay or even military surpluses at least thats where I bought my first intercom back in the 90s.
A tougher question to ask is where does one get training in intercom usage and as an audio engineer how does one get video to STFU with out being mean, lol.
RAD or Reidel or Clear-Com would be where my money went. Not holding my breath for a DMX color changing flasher for FOH, someday that would be cool, but a flasher is a good think to have at FOH, most put gaff tape on it to dim the light, pretty common stuff.
As for wired vs wireless, it depends, im a bear claws stone knife person my self, a party line pbox used for golf tournaments for example works pretty good Or a wired rig or even a telephone as if at FOH, id rather not have on a headset.
Headsets are like fashion accessories, I look for things like left and right ear or options like when you raise the boom mic does it mute the mic etc.
Someday I’ll build a headphone system for foh that pipes cell phone, intercom and two solo busses, but im currently not sitting at a FOH so no need at the moment. Im still just another online internet audio junkie, lol.
I should also note that there are some cell phone iPhone apps that church’s use I think it works on a licensing scheme dont recall the names off the top of my head there are at least three or four.
Good luck let us know what you chose,
Well, RF over fibre is a bit mangled, as of course we can send audio and video on fibre but not rf, that is electromagnetic in nature so carrier free, but it doesn’t go down fibre.
the problem with comms is the use people have in mind. Remember that for many people, comms is something they use but don’t understand. In practice it’s far more complex, and also depends where you are. Clearcom is worldwide, but historically since the 90s in the U.K. it was less common, by a big degree because we had Canford Audio’s Tecpro system. This would need to be in U.K. rental inventory if your customers do theatre. However, over the past few years, it’s taken a decline in popularity and I now see Clearcom far more than I used to, and new builds and revamps are moving to Clearcom, or a Clearcom compatible systems. We’re really talking about ring systems here. The ones where you have the comms line carrying one or two channels of analogue audio that belt packs and desk style units get plugged onto. A ring. You take a line from an output and slap in into a new pack, and it just works. Everyone hears everything and typically you can split it. For entertainment you might have the DSM on channel 1 while the follow posts can talk to each other on channel 2, but they’ll also be listening to channel 1 for cues. Clearcom spec or Trantec spec are NOT the same, the levels and line impedance are different. Plugging them together often produces weird effects, instability and even feedback. The system works by having an audio line at relatively low impedance and then having outstations of a higher impedance bridging the line. As long as there are not too many, it works fine. Clearcom used to describe it as party line, as in everyone can hear and talk to everyone.
the alternative, becoming more common now is point to point systems. Everyone has a choice of who they are linked to. A ’star’ system where there is a programmable hub, and the idea being that. People are put into groups, so somebody decides who hears and talks to whom. This was common in television but is spreading. Especially as now it can be digital over a network it’s pretty easy to arrange. The party line being described as 2-wire and point to point has two way audio, described as 4-wire in analogue.
RF systems are frankly terrible. When they work, they’re great, but often they’re awful. I’ve just done ten weeks where I only realised how awful they were when I borrowed one half way through to cover somebody. Broken audio, constant “out of range” messages when I was normally using an analogue, old fashioned system over a far greater distance. These were Clearcom and everyone using them hated them, but they had no cables.
RF is a difficult subject to describe quickly. It is not concrete that is a problem, but the rebar inside the concrete. It works like a Faraday cage, and signal strength through it is greatly reduced and even worse it is frequency dependant. The holes in your microwave cooker’s door let light through but stop 900W of very damaging RF cooking the user. UHF radio might get through some rebar, VHF struggles. In my case I’ve got some 5GHz video kit and it got through quite a few concrete walls. I had assumed it would not, but was very surprised it did, when 800MHz struggled.
for hire inventory, you will need to find out what your customers already have. Here, I have been a Tecpro user for years, and really like them, but while a Tecpro pack sort of works sometimes, it’s not reliable and can make the system unstable, so not just a make up some cables solution. Now Clearcom do different systems within the brand it’s even harder to hire. Buy what your customers are using. I‘ve even got a few point to point systems for specific purposes. U.K. theatres seem to be refitting with Clearcom, which is a shame.
the problem with comms is the use people have in mind. Remember that for many people, comms is something they use but don’t understand. In practice it’s far more complex, and also depends where you are. Clearcom is worldwide, but historically since the 90s in the U.K. it was less common, by a big degree because we had Canford Audio’s Tecpro system. This would need to be in U.K. rental inventory if your customers do theatre. However, over the past few years, it’s taken a decline in popularity and I now see Clearcom far more than I used to, and new builds and revamps are moving to Clearcom, or a Clearcom compatible systems. We’re really talking about ring systems here. The ones where you have the comms line carrying one or two channels of analogue audio that belt packs and desk style units get plugged onto. A ring. You take a line from an output and slap in into a new pack, and it just works. Everyone hears everything and typically you can split it. For entertainment you might have the DSM on channel 1 while the follow posts can talk to each other on channel 2, but they’ll also be listening to channel 1 for cues. Clearcom spec or Trantec spec are NOT the same, the levels and line impedance are different. Plugging them together often produces weird effects, instability and even feedback. The system works by having an audio line at relatively low impedance and then having outstations of a higher impedance bridging the line. As long as there are not too many, it works fine. Clearcom used to describe it as party line, as in everyone can hear and talk to everyone.
the alternative, becoming more common now is point to point systems. Everyone has a choice of who they are linked to. A ’star’ system where there is a programmable hub, and the idea being that. People are put into groups, so somebody decides who hears and talks to whom. This was common in television but is spreading. Especially as now it can be digital over a network it’s pretty easy to arrange. The party line being described as 2-wire and point to point has two way audio, described as 4-wire in analogue.
RF systems are frankly terrible. When they work, they’re great, but often they’re awful. I’ve just done ten weeks where I only realised how awful they were when I borrowed one half way through to cover somebody. Broken audio, constant “out of range” messages when I was normally using an analogue, old fashioned system over a far greater distance. These were Clearcom and everyone using them hated them, but they had no cables.
RF is a difficult subject to describe quickly. It is not concrete that is a problem, but the rebar inside the concrete. It works like a Faraday cage, and signal strength through it is greatly reduced and even worse it is frequency dependant. The holes in your microwave cooker’s door let light through but stop 900W of very damaging RF cooking the user. UHF radio might get through some rebar, VHF struggles. In my case I’ve got some 5GHz video kit and it got through quite a few concrete walls. I had assumed it would not, but was very surprised it did, when 800MHz struggled.
for hire inventory, you will need to find out what your customers already have. Here, I have been a Tecpro user for years, and really like them, but while a Tecpro pack sort of works sometimes, it’s not reliable and can make the system unstable, so not just a make up some cables solution. Now Clearcom do different systems within the brand it’s even harder to hire. Buy what your customers are using. I‘ve even got a few point to point systems for specific purposes. U.K. theatres seem to be refitting with Clearcom, which is a shame.
Thanks for sharing Paul, just to be clear, pun intended. There are lots of RF over fiber boxes, like ...... lots afaik
Indeed, but not quite sure about typical comms systems needing it. The low power means small areas, so it’s never RF that would need sending long distances? You’d slap an RF unit in each area it’s needed and run a network or audio cable. Handy for microwave connections up towers though.
Hi Ben-
Do a search for the "handbook of intercom engineering", IIRC it was Telex/AudioCom but the concepts apply to all brands of party line intercoms.
The Big Kids play with matrix coms now, many of which have IP capability, so your participants can be almost anywhere there's internet, or hard wired right next to you.
In my world of handling touring theatricals and music acts, analog party line on our end of things is still common. At our PAC all auditoriums have 2 channels of analog Telex, with a couple of ClearCom interface boxes. Telex/AudioCom/RTS is mostly in broadcast these days and ClearCom is more common in venues and touring.
"Real" wireless coms are expensive. There's a Hollyland wireless that gets "great value for the money" reviews and I saw several schools using them at our state thespian conference this year. They seemed happy with the systems and I didn't observe anyone expressing frustration with them. I can see these going out as stand-alone rentals for charity fashion shows and similar gigs where client wants coms with their back end staff, etc. I'd not expect professional production folks to accept them, but at the price they'd only need to go out a few times to pay for themselves.
Do a search for the "handbook of intercom engineering", IIRC it was Telex/AudioCom but the concepts apply to all brands of party line intercoms.
The Big Kids play with matrix coms now, many of which have IP capability, so your participants can be almost anywhere there's internet, or hard wired right next to you.
In my world of handling touring theatricals and music acts, analog party line on our end of things is still common. At our PAC all auditoriums have 2 channels of analog Telex, with a couple of ClearCom interface boxes. Telex/AudioCom/RTS is mostly in broadcast these days and ClearCom is more common in venues and touring.
"Real" wireless coms are expensive. There's a Hollyland wireless that gets "great value for the money" reviews and I saw several schools using them at our state thespian conference this year. They seemed happy with the systems and I didn't observe anyone expressing frustration with them. I can see these going out as stand-alone rentals for charity fashion shows and similar gigs where client wants coms with their back end staff, etc. I'd not expect professional production folks to accept them, but at the price they'd only need to go out a few times to pay for themselves.