When LARGE dinosaurs roamed the earth...

Re: When LARGE dinosaurs roamed the earth...

Jordan Wolf said:
I didn't mean to imply he did, my bad. I remember reading somewhere that he used the E/Vs with B3 organs.

If you check out Heil's website gallery, you can browse through some cool pics of the "good ol' days" of concert sound. Here's his backstory of the cabinet and 30" driver on the REP side of PSW.
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Very cool - thank you! I think I had read that before and forgot about him being a Hammond guy. I really like Hammonds. :)~:-)~:smile:
 
Re: When LARGE dinosaurs roamed the earth...

Gene Hardage said:
There may be a few subs today that go down to the mid 20's but how many db down are they at that point?

I was just saying that if someone were to try to use this kind of speaker today they would be best suited to that area that's hardest to get to and leaving the punchy area from 40ish to 90ish for something else. Kinda like that EV 30 that was mentioned. The difference being that this particular dinosaur handled a lot more wattage than that EV 30. It seems that the current speaker size limit is 21" because I have not heard of anyone making anything larger that works and sounds good have you?
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Well at the open demo yesterday-we were playing around with some subs at one point. On some songs, when the bass went down low-the notes simply weren't there. And this was with a very popular 2x18" concert sub. When we switched to a subs with smaller diameter woofers (and had a much lower freq response), you could hear all the notes the artist put in the recording.

They did not play those notes so that the speaker system could not reproduce them-they INTENDED for them to be heard.

There are only a few high output subs that have a REAL (as referenced from rated sensitivity) -3dB point below 30Hz. Forget the "simple specs" look at the measured response-WITHOUT adding low freq boost-any sub can go lower if you do that-but it takes away from the max loudness (manufacturers "forget" to mention that BTW).

But when you hear a sub that goes below 30Hz solid-you QUICKLY realize how important it is to be able to do so-at least with some forms of music. With other styles of music-it is not a big deal.
 
Re: When LARGE dinosaurs roamed the earth...

A more interesting question - why do performers use "notes" that cannot be reproduced by the vast majority of systems, both pro and consumer?
 
Re: When LARGE dinosaurs roamed the earth...

Tim McCulloch said:
A more interesting question - why do performers use "notes" that cannot be reproduced by the vast majority of systems, both pro and consumer?
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They assume that the market will follow, and deeper subs will come out soon - with similar form factor, price, and output. And, many just have never heard deep, accurate bass.

At a church tech conference we are part of - we had a bunch of toys (moving lights, LED walls, various digital consoles, etc) there, but the one product that generated more excitement than everything else combined? The Danley DBH-218-LC subs. Few had heard true, sub-30-Hz bass that was accurate and had plenty of headroom.
 
Re: When LARGE dinosaurs roamed the earth...

Ivan Beaver said:
Well at the open demo yesterday-we were playing around with some subs at one point. On some songs, when the bass went down low-the notes simply weren't there. And this was with a very popular 2x18" concert sub. When we switched to a subs with smaller diameter woofers (and had a much lower freq response), you could hear all the notes the artist put in the recording.

They did not play those notes so that the speaker system could not reproduce them-they INTENDED for them to be heard.

There are only a few high output subs that have a REAL (as referenced from rated sensitivity) -3dB point below 30Hz. Forget the "simple specs" look at the measured response-WITHOUT adding low freq boost-any sub can go lower if you do that-but it takes away from the max loudness (manufacturers "forget" to mention that BTW).

But when you hear a sub that goes below 30Hz solid-you QUICKLY realize how important it is to be able to do so-at least with some forms of music. With other styles of music-it is not a big deal.
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Exactly

I too have been present for demos that show off the low notes and the way each cab produces the low end is always unique and interesting. For the current dub-steppers these old dinosaur 27's crossed underneath the usual 2x18 sub would be very effective. I asked Rick about them and he says they went down pretty solid to the mid and even the low 20's. I heard them way back then but don't remember them as we were busy dealing with band stuff. The current crop of low end producing speakers are of course better than yesteryears model but the real magic comes from the cab designers of the world.
 
Re: When LARGE dinosaurs roamed the earth...

Tim McCulloch said:
A more interesting question - why do performers use "notes" that cannot be reproduced by the vast majority of systems, both pro and consumer?
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Most decent consumer home systems go a good bit lower than standard PA speakers.

Fine for recordings-but how they intend to do that live is another question. Maybe for the artist-or for manufacturers who don't make those products.
 
Re: When LARGE dinosaurs roamed the earth...

Ivan Beaver said:
Most decent consumer home systems go a good bit lower than standard PA speakers.

Fine for recordings-but how they intend to do that live is another question. Maybe for the artist-or for manufacturers who don't make those products.
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And what percentage of music "buyers" still have any consumer home system at all, let alone a decent one? Most people only hear music through loudspeakers in their car or at a show anymore. Sad...
 
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