Which 50A receptacle should we install for you???

D

Dave Rickard

Freshman
Jan 29, 2011
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Wild West
I'm working with a church on their new install. I suggested that they install a 50A 240V receptacle for visiting groups who are carrying a distro.

I know "It depends", but somebody has to make this decision, and hopefully the right one down the road.

Which receptacle type should I recommend, NEMA 14-50R or CS6369?
Any other wisdom on this?

Thanks!
 
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Re: Which 50A receptacle should we install for you???

It depends on what they are touring with. I would guess (could be wrong) that most people touring with a distro are needing to tie in bare wires. I would guess that most places do not have a "standard" output/receptacle.

I would be interested to know if there is a "standard" out there.
 
I have all three connectors. The locking is my preferred, the California is the most common on generators locally, and the range plug indoors.

But since most people who are breaking out from 50 amps are going to 20 amp circuits, I would just say the install the 20 amp circuits and be done with it.
 
Re: Which 50A receptacle should we install for you???

Jay Barracato said:
But since most people who are breaking out from 50 amps are going to 20 amp circuits, I would just say the install the 20 amp circuits and be done with it.
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But if the acts racks are all wired up nice and pretty-unplugging the individual components to get into the local system may be meet with some "resistance".
 
Re: Which 50A receptacle should we install for you???

Jay Barracato said:
I have all three connectors. The locking is my preferred, the California is the most common on generators locally, and the range plug indoors.

But since most people who are breaking out from 50 amps are going to 20 amp circuits, I would just say the install the 20 amp circuits and be done with it.
Click to expand...

If I need anything more than 2 20 amp circuits, I use locally supplied edisons only as an absolute last resort. I am totally uncomfortable building a sound system upon a foundation of unknown integrity. I want my own distro. We can tie in or plug in to anything available, but the NEMA 14-50R is cheap, easy and very prevalent in hotel ball and meeting rooms.
 
Ivan Beaver said:
But if the acts racks are all wired up nice and pretty-unplugging the individual components to get into the local system may be meet with some "resistance".
Click to expand...

Do you try to satisfy the majority or the minority?

No reason not to have the 50 amp drop, but it doesn't make sense to me not to put the service in place in the first place rather than relying on acts to have a distro.

I would bet most inspectors would rather see the installed panel with permanent circuits, rather than any portable distro, even if the distro is up to code.

If a band is going into places where the largest breakout is a 50 amp plug my bet is they are also doing plenty of places that doesn't have that and are prepared to replug. On a larger system with dedicated 50 amp breakouts like you are talking about, they are probably going cams or tails to a larger distro.

My point remains: don't let putting in a single 50 amp plug prevent you from putting appropriate 20 amp circuits to all the areas of production.
 
Re: Which 50A receptacle should we install for you???

Jay Barracato said:
Do you try to satisfy the majority or the minority?

No reason not to have the 50 amp drop, but it doesn't make sense to me not to put the service in place in the first place rather than relying on acts to have a distro.

I would bet most inspectors would rather see the installed panel with permanent circuits, rather than any portable distro, even if the distro is up to code.

If a band is going into places where the largest breakout is a 50 amp plug my bet is they are also doing plenty of places that doesn't have that and are prepared to replug. On a larger system with dedicated 50 amp breakouts like you are talking about, they are probably going cams or tails to a larger distro.

My point remains: don't let putting in a single 50 amp plug prevent you from putting appropriate 20 amp circuits to all the areas of production.
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Not sure where it was implied that the distro would be used by the house instead of installing enough regular circuits?

Depending on the size and level of technical competence of the church, a 14-50R (or even two of them) would be a really nice and relatively inexpensive addition. If they're a little more serious, adding a 100A or 200A company switch would also be great, and accomodate a lot more stuff. If the room is 50' X 75' and seats 300 people, a 200A switch may be a little overkill.
 
Re: Which 50A receptacle should we install for you???

Dave Rickard said:
I'm working with a church on their new install. I suggested that they install a 50A 240V receptacle for visiting groups who are carrying a distro.

I know "It depends", but somebody has to make this decision, and hopefully the right one down the road.

Which receptacle type should I recommend, NEMA 14-50R or CS6369?
Any other wisdom on this?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Gensets make the CS6369 ubiquitous for single phase, but they're of limited utility. If someone's carrying a distro for production into the church, its almost assuredly also for lighting, and almost assuredly three phase. You can run a baby single phase distro off three phase wye in a pinch (and with a suitably sized neutral), but not the other way around.

If they are going to do this, it really needs to be a "company switch" with camloks and a place to attach bare tails.
 
Re: Which 50A receptacle should we install for you???

Jay Barracato said:
I have all three connectors. The locking is my preferred, the California is the most common on generators locally, and the range plug indoors.

But since most people who are breaking out from 50 amps are going to 20 amp circuits, I would just say the install the 20 amp circuits and be done with it.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming this isn't an either or scenario. Well equipped ballrooms and smaller venues will usually have the 14-50 in addition to a solid cluster of conventional circuits. I agree that in many cases the 14-50 may almost never get used (some places think it's 'neat' that I've used it and didn't know what it was). In other places the connectors are used so much they are broken and dangerous. I even know some wedding bands that have small distros, but they would be SOL with a CS connector.

Just to contribute another perspective, the electric car charging folks have had to contend with even more adapters. Most Tesla owners end up with a 14-50 wired up in their garage, but it will be interesting to see what the future holds for a more user friendly high-current plug, if indeed electric cars do (eventually) become more commonplace. This isn't meant as to start a quasi-political discussion about the merits of electric cars!

Tesla.jpgchargingSolutions_med_main1.jpgNissan Leaf 1.jpegNissan Leaf.jpg
 
Re: Which 50A receptacle should we install for you???

Dave Rickard said:
I'm working with a church on their new install. I suggested that they install a 50A 240V receptacle for visiting groups who are carrying a distro.

I know "It depends", but somebody has to make this decision, and hopefully the right one down the road.

Which receptacle type should I recommend, NEMA 14-50R or CS6369?
Any other wisdom on this?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Around these parts (Northern CA), the CS connection is showing up at a lot more venues. If you have an amp with a 30a plug (many larger amps do), you should have the ability to plug it into a proper 30a outlet, which could be on a 50a fed distro. Multiple 20a will be a compromise for these. The CS cables are also rentable at local tool rental facilities, along with spider boxes if you need to distribute power. I have CS fed 50a rack packs in my amp racks, because I don't require 3 phase, and the cs connections are more prevalent. They come stock on generators and are showing up on walls of many venues. I agree with others that a proper 100a main switch with the ability to tie in cams would be of great benefit as well.
 
Re: Which 50A receptacle should we install for you???

Dave, how often does the church host acts that need more than "a bunch" of Edison circuits? How many acts have shown up with a 14-50 or CS6369? How many performances need "real" power? If the answer to the last question is "more than once in a blue moon", read on:

Here is what I would do: have the electrician run a new 3 phase/5 wire service to the auditorium, the ugly side can be in a near by janitor closet or store room. On the "pretty side" install 6 each 20 amp Edison duplex outlets and a 14-50. On the ugly side, install a 3p 5wire 100 amp fused disconnect. All of these should have breakers in that new service box... 6 20 amp breakers, 1 ganged 50 amp, and 1 3 pole ganged 100 amp breaker to de-energize the disconnect while hooking up. Any performance that needs more power will require a generator and rented feeder.

My guess is the Edisons will be used frequently and the rest? Not so much... but when you do host a "name" performer in the church you'll be much more likely to have the electrical service they need.

My final question: has anyone from the church talked to the performers that travel the circuit?
 
This would be used infrequently. I'm just thinking of making it easy for someone with a Motion Labs Rac Pac or similar. There are at least 6 circuits of 110V in easy reach.

I doubt 3-phase would ever get used or needed. The floor plan allows a feeder to an external generator without much trouble if needed.
 
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