Why? Is RTFM a secret?

Re: Why? Is RTFM a secret?

Rob Spence said:
\\rant
Why does it seem there has been a large number of questions recently where there seems to have been no reading of the user manual at all? The logical signal flow diagrams seem to all have been encrypted too.

Or is it just me?

More bourbon I think...
//end rant


Sent from my iPad HD
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Why teach yourself when you have a bunch of other people who can't read a manual tell you the wrong answer? :(~:-(~:sad:
 
Re: Why? Is RTFM a secret?

Should RTFF also come into play. In these days of instant gratification, there are people who won't expend the energy to look for an answer. Heavens forbid they should search for another thread dealing with the same problem, they don't want someone elses used answer, they want a brand new answer, crafted just for them. By the way, what is the best kick drum mic?
 
Re: Why? Is RTFM a secret?

Rob Spence said:
\\rant
Why does it seem there has been a large number of questions recently where there seems to have been no reading of the user manual at all? The logical signal flow diagrams seem to all have been encrypted too.

Or is it just me?

More bourbon I think...
//end rant


Sent from my iPad HD
Click to expand...
It just lazy. Deep Purple wrote a song about it in the 70's. Laxy-just stay in bed--------------------

I think you should have your "mixing license" taken away from you if you if you do not RTFM FIRST.

It may not give you all the answers-but at least it is a START.

Back in the day (before the internet) we used to have to do RESEARCH. What I found was that in the process of researching something-I would learn about something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT-and interesting.

Now you just straight to the answer-and you miss A LOT of important stuff along the way. Like the FUNDAMENTALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Re: Why? Is RTFM a secret?

As someone who reads manuals for the sole purpose of reading manuals...

RTFM!!! Sometimes, they suck, and I understand not reading those (for example, if you have ever tried to read the Windows 8 manual) but for the love of God... at least skim the contents or index for something. As someone who recently existed in the public school system, research is not a well taught skill and I am quite frustrated with not having this skill already. It appears to have become part of our culture- that research skills are not important. I hated not knowing any acoustic theory because I didn't know how to find the information. Back on topic though, RTM. It gives you at least a partial idea of what on earth is going on.

If you don't like reading manuals, Mackie manuals are actually a decently fun read. I've found that the most frustrating ones come out of Germany.

You know, maybe we should have a forum manual just for the purpose of getting people into this habit.
 
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Re: Why? Is RTFM a secret?

Ivan Beaver said:
Read The Frickin Manual
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While I'm a fan of manuals and recommending them for a source for answers, I will state that I make an exception for Yamahama "manuals". They're the most arcane, useless piles of advertising copy ever foisted on the purchaser/user. Sure, the info is there somewhere, but the only way to find it is to figure the problem out yourself, then go back to the manual and dig out the explanation of what you've done. There is no rhyme/reason to their organization of the information in a practical sense. Unadulterated crapola.

close rant
 
Re: Why? Is RTFM a secret?

I agree 100% with RTFM, but even more so - exhaust all your options and efforts before coming on here and posting. we had this discussion awhile back and I think we came to a conclusion that there are "two camps". People who enjoy figuring out the problem themselves, and are truly stumped and who have exhausted all sources before coming on here to ask the questions. And then there are the others, who haven't cracked the plastic bag on the manual, or probably even another option. At any rate, very frustrating to see the later... search people, cause figuring it out on your own.... you'll never forget the answer or how you got it - spoon feeding is for babies....
 
Re: Why? Is RTFM a secret?

Sadly, I think a lot of this is a generational thing. When I was first learning how to do sound the Internet didn't exist. You had to go to the library, find anything you could on the subject that was even remotely related, and read every word until you finally figured out what it all meant. That at least got you in the ballpark. Then you dragged out all the gear, hooked it up, and figured out how to make it work.

When I first got a real sound company job, I actually went through the file cabinet and read every single manual on every single piece of gear they had. I was just overjoyed to be able to find all of the information in one place. Of course that also quickly made me the resident expert on every piece of gear in the shop, since I knew every arcane application, connector, and function of every piece of gear we had. That in turn went a long way to my rapid career advancement. Yes boys and girls, knowledge IS power.

At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man, now information is just a simple Google search away. There just isn't the same motivation to absorb large quantities of knowledge in the offhand chance you might need it sometime in the future. Instead you know that if you need to find the information, you can just Google it and there it is. While I love the access to information that the Internet provides, I'm not sure it's all a good thing.
 
brian maddox said:
Sadly, I think a lot of this is a generational thing. When I was first learning how to do sound the Internet didn't exist. You had to go to the library, find anything you could on the subject that was even remotely related, and read every word until you finally figured out what it all meant. That at least got you in the ballpark. Then you dragged out all the gear, hooked it up, and figured out how to make it work.

When I first got a real sound company job, I actually went through the file cabinet and read every single manual on every single piece of gear they had. I was just overjoyed to be able to find all of the information in one place. Of course that also quickly made me the resident expert on every piece of gear in the shop, since I knew every arcane application, connector, and function of every piece of gear we had. That in turn went a long way to my rapid career advancement. Yes boys and girls, knowledge IS power.

At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man, now information is just a simple Google search away. There just isn't the same motivation to absorb large quantities of knowledge in the offhand chance you might need it sometime in the future. Instead you know that if you need to find the information, you can just Google it and there it is. While I love the access to information that the Internet provides, I'm not sure it's all a good thing.
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I went through a couple of years where most of my students thought every answer was just a Google away and some actually became angry when that didn't work.

Now it seems that most are too lazy to even attempt that.

I believe we are seeing the exact result of "no child left behind (no child gets ahead) " and minimum competency testing I predicted 15 years and 100s of million of dollars ago. Of course we are now gearing up for the next reform that is going fix terminal lazy.
 
Re: Why? Is RTFM a secret?

Hey Rob, it's not just you. I caught a little hell from a poster in the X32 thread when I suggested to (R)ead (T)he (F)@#king (M)anual and to take a look at You Tube tutorials , it got on my nerve that in his posts he wanted answers "ASAP" and wanted to be spoon fed. A lot of folks are too lazy to do the research on their own. If you are kicking out any amount of cash on something it should behoove one to do the research.
 
Re: Why? Is RTFM a secret?

GUILTY.. as someone that has to deal daily with obsolete manuals for equipment that was made decades ago, I sometimes find it's a heck of a lot easier (less time consuming) to simply ask someone with hands on experience.. You can read a Finglish, Germglish, or in Chinassemblese manual cover to cover and still ask WTF? And what about the software updates that come faster than they can let the ink dry on ths week's manual... Yes, I have two copies of the manual (different versions) and the quick start guide, and have at least skimmed most of it. But is it a crime to ask a "power user", hey bubba, what does that 4th encoder do when you have it on sends on fader? I get to actually touch the board maybe once a week, and some guys live on it.... there's no substitue for experience...
 
Re: Why? Is RTFM a secret?

Dick Rees said:
While I'm a fan of manuals and recommending them for a source for answers, I will state that I make an exception for Yamahama "manuals". They're the most arcane, useless piles of advertising copy ever foisted on the purchaser/user. Sure, the info is there somewhere, but the only way to find it is to figure the problem out yourself, then go back to the manual and dig out the explanation of what you've done. There is no rhyme/reason to their organization of the information in a practical sense. Unadulterated crapola.

close rant
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I figured out Yamaha manuals. Read the quick start. Plug stuff in, turn it on. When you run into something you can't do or reacts in an unexpected way, consult the index of the Really Yammy Manual, and put on your "think like a Yamaha engineer" hat. The answer is in there. You will find it. Trying to extract information or knowledge from the manual any other way is frustrating and sometimes so opaque you need a chainsaw. But you need that hat....
 
Re: Why? Is RTFM a secret?

At Peavey I learned to escape the ire of dealers and the guys working the phones in service, I needed to design products that you didn't need to read the owners manual to figure out how to make sound come out.

One of my best designs using that philosophy was the FLS feedback LEDs, even a musician could figure out which slider to pull down, without reading a lick. :)

Unfortunately difficult problems can involve somewhat complex solutions, so my drum tuner has a 10 page owners manual despite my best effort.

=====

on topic, I suspect a new digital mixer, sold at a new low price point is sure to attract lots of inexperienced entry level users who are suddenly in the deep end of the pool. Combine that with the "google" generation raised with a wealth of information at their finger tips just for asking, so we get lots of asking.

Perhaps some kind of expert system to decipher vague questions and return appropriate video owners manual clips could help.

JR

PS: I suspect Yamaha has a similar product design approach to Peavey regarding intuitive operation at least for normal products. Digital products can get tangled up if the software coders are allowed to design the menu structure to make their job easier. While this should be obvious, menus need to be optimized to make the user's life easier.
 
Re: Why? Is RTFM a secret?

Another factor to consider here is that some people, myself included, learn better auditorily and therefore will prefer someone else explaining the answer to them in person rather than reading a manual. Also, some people may be more comfortable or confident in another person's ability to answer the question than the manuals (if they are not the most user friendly) and once again will prefer not to RTFM. While this applies less to the forum, and it does not excuse people from not reading the manual first, it should be noted and taken into account.

Also, for these people (once again, I am included in this), it might be more useful to go to a training session than reading the manual. I would personally do this if I were able to. In addition, I personally would never trust myself reading information from a book or other form of text and then applying it without already having some experience in the field or consulting someone who I know has the correct answer already. Though this applies mainly in terms of things such as rigging or associated things, it all follows the same kind of process. Just some thoughts.

Hence the expert system is a great idea. I and many other people would benefit greatly from that. Obviously, that is not what this forum is at the time, but things can always be added.
 
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Re: Why? Is RTFM a secret?

Max Warasila said:
Another factor to consider here is that some people, myself included, learn better auditorily and therefore will prefer someone else explaining the answer to them in person rather than reading a manual. Also, some people may be more comfortable or confident in another person's ability to answer the question than the manuals (if they are not the most user friendly) and once again will prefer not to RTFM. While this applies less to the forum, and it does not excuse people from not reading the manual first, it should be noted and taken into account.
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I am more comfortable when somebody mows my lawn for me.
Also, for these people (once again, I am included in this), it might be more useful to go to a training session than reading the manual. I would personally do this if I were able to. In addition, I personally would never trust myself reading information from a book or other form of text and then applying it without already having some experience in the field or consulting someone who I know has the correct answer already. Though this applies mainly in terms of things such as rigging or associated things, it all follows the same kind of process. Just some thoughts.
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This does beg the question about education... What role does the the teacher or instructor play? (rhetorical question not a simple answer).
Hence the expert system is a great idea. I and many other people would benefit greatly from that. Obviously, that is not what this forum is at the time, but things can always be added.
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Since I'm a college drop-out and mostly self taught I am not very sympathetic. I did get some mentoring in early jobs working for senior engineers, but before too long I became the answer man and the buck stopped with me to deliver problem solving solutions.

The internet is powerful, wonderful resource. Kids do not appreciate how lucky they are to have that kind of knowledge documented and searchable. Expecting to have that knowledge spoon fed to them will probably happen too. This sounds like one of those bad science fiction plots where we evolve to be totally unable to figure out answers by ourselves.

please don't take this as a personal attack, our generational gap is showing. :-(

JR

PS: I see expert systems as useful for the practice of medicine where computers can help integrate last minute changing information about new drugs and statistics on large data review of procedure outcomes can be integrated into a doctors immediate decision making process. Kind of like a smart second opinion consultation/check list, with up to date last second information, but my crystal ball is full of this nonsense.
 
Re: Why? Is RTFM a secret?

Actually, I agree with you on most of this. I know what almost every single thing does wherever I go because I just sat down and read all the manuals (on the internet no less, how fitting) and thus am becoming an answer man. Only problem is that my boss doesn't really trust me with any decision bigger than plugging in a microphone while everyone who works with me is consistently asking me to plug their stuff in because they can't figure out the difference between a balanced and unbalanced cable half the time (what on earth...?), and I am completely self taught up to this point. I just wish I had someone who would teach me.

I can also tell you that yes- we do not appreciate how lucky we are to have this much knowledge. It hits us sometimes, but we take it for granted because it has always been there. Someday there will be something more amazing that we will view in the same way as you are viewing the internet most likely, and even if we don't, that's just how aging works.

And hey- I don't take anything as a personal attack unless it's been made clear that it is. This is the internet after all. If I did that I'd be banned from the whole within a week. :D

Finally, to respond to the PS: Ooooooooohhhhh! Shiny!
May I borrow your crystal ball for... ohhhh, I don't know... forever?
 
Re: Why? Is RTFM a secret?

I really do appreciate the anti laziness sentiment that is being expressed here but I also agree with many of Nick's comments. This forum is populated with people who live and breath audio as well as some retirees who sit around on the internet looking for something interesting. If that mass of brain power is available any time of day or night, why not use it? And I'm "that guy" on some other forums from time to time. I really don't care about Quickbooks and I don't want to spend any more time on it than I have to. If I can't figure it out from initial FAQs, then I don't want to be mired in a 4 hour quest to find a solution so I will ask what might be a simple question on a forum. When it comes to tech related stuff, sometimes it's simply a matter of expediency. I can wade through the manual trying to decipher the paradigm while the show is waiting or I can ask the forum on the chance that someone will know right away what it is that I'm trying to get to (and while waiting for an answer go back to the wading through the manual).

It seems to me that how we use the internet is a fairly complicated thing and therefore the forum etiquette is still evolving, no?
 
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