Wireless Intercom Manufacturers (Vendors)?

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Ed Council

Freshman
Jun 18, 2011
1
0
0
Boston area
I have been tasked to look for higher end wireless intercom systems for a local community theater group. They have the financial means to make this level of investment. I am quite familiar with the Telex BTR-200 (and 300) series units that operate in the VHF range.

They are not interested in that option since they currently have a BTR-300 that does not work well but particularly is subject to RF interference from somebody at the rental facility across the street. It seems that "some karaoke DJ" has a VHF unit and when he is there, it blasts through the BTR-300. There is not way to know when that will happen so the group's solution is to replace the BTR-300 with a 2.4 GHz (or such) spread spectrum style unit. I have told them of other possibilities but at this point, they are not interested. I have been tasked to look for units to consider and get pricing

Am aware of the other Telex units and units made by ClearCom. Have surfed their sites but not sure which specific products are best. Would appreciate comments about experiences with specific models by by these manufacturers

A couple of the requirements are:
- interconnection with the existing cable ClearCom system
- interchangeability of standard headset - some systemd use a wireless headset - rather have a traditional 4 pin XLR headset with belt pack so the same headset can be used on the cabled system.
- 4 wireless units / no need for a matrix / multi-channel system

Not sure what other requirements I should be considering.

Not sure of other manufacturers. Who else should I be considering?

Have heard some concerns about spread spectrum technology and noise. The group feels that 2.4 Ghz / spread spectrum technology will cure what ails them. If that is not correct, would like to make sure expectations are in check. The theater's location is in suburban Boston near an US Air Force based and other high tech / defense contractors so may be in an "active" RF area. Use will primarily be nighttime and weekends.

Also, am interested referrals to local (Boston area) vendors that sell these units.

Am new to SoundForums.net - if there is an archive that answers these questions that I should have read first, please point me to it.

Thanks!
ELC
 
Re: Wireless Intercom Manufacturers (Vendors)?

Hello,

I have a Clearcom WBS 680 series system. No problems with it...just make certain you get all of the headsets and packs returned and put on the charger. My system includes... a 2 channel Wireless base station, it will support up to 4 Wireless beltpacks and ? hard-wired, additional beltpacks.

I have a total of 4 wireless beltpacks, the base, 4 additional wired beltpacks, a couple of interconnect adapter boxes, and a traditional wired 4 channel base for back-up. If I've needed more packs/headsets, I've rented them.

For shows, I've only allowed wireless to Stage Manager(s), Tech Director (if mobile and participating), On Stage Crew chief, and Utility, everyone else gets a hardwired beltpack/headset....meaning LD, Foh, Mon, Spot Ops, Backline station, Vidiot, Pyro/Effects Tech, Camera Ops, Flyman,Talent Mgr, Wife, Girlfriend, Wife's Girlfriend, Spiritual Guru, etc..

These Wireless Com systems work great in line-of-sight, and well in not-so-line of sight, but, if you're in an old thick walled, heavily constructed building .... you may need additional antennas installed.

Good luck...don't buy cheap, and don't buy wireless for the whole crew...in either case...you'll regret it.

Hammer
 
Re: Wireless Intercom Manufacturers (Vendors)?

As I understand the market there about 4 types of systems our there right now.

- Dirt cheap 2.4 GHz, ex Eartec (sp?), worth passing over
- Analog UHF, ex Telex BTR 700/800, HME 850, Clearcom markets a OEM'ed version of the BTR's. In these system the 5th and 9th belt back are very expensive* (Exceptions apply)
- Digital 2.4 GHz, ex Clearcom Tempest, HME 100, 200 and 300 series.
- Digital 1.9 GHz, ex Clearcom Cellcomm, Riedel Accrobat, these are no good if you have Sprint PCS on the wrong band in your area. See: http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,1542.msg8623.html#new

I've got little first hand experience with any of these but my church is considering purchasing a Riedel Accrobat system.

Philip
 
Re: Wireless Intercom Manufacturers (Vendors)?

Philip pretty much summed up the offerings.

For the analog UHF systems from Clearcom or HME (which now owns Clearcom) you are looking at about $10,000 per base station and four belt packs. Individual belt packs will run about $1,100 to $1,600 each after that. Riedel Acrobat will will about $9,000 for the CC-8 base station and the belt packs are about $1,600 each.

I can tell you from first hand experience that the analog UHF systems are going to be easier to implement and you will have good coverage with only a couple well placed antennas. The Riedel Acrobat system is in a whole other league. There are issues with interference from PCS services, as well as multipath drops out depending on the venue that you are using it in. However, Riedel will come out and do a full RF analysis of your venue to determine if your venue will allow correct operation of their system. They WILL tell you that there are some venues that just will not work with their stuff. To that end you are left pretty much with analog UHF. I was not impressed with Clearcom's Cellcom or Tempest systems when we have them in for demo.

Be wary about buying it at only 4 wireless channels. Once you have a working wireless com system, you will "need" at least twice as many belt packs as you have.

You do absolutely how ever need to sit down and do some real RF coordination if you are going to use a UHF system to make sure that you are in the correct band, and are not getting or causing interference or intermod problems with whatever wireless microphones or other coms that might be used in the building.
 
Re: Wireless Intercom Manufacturers (Vendors)?

Look into the Tempest 2.4gHz Spread Spectrum Frequency Hopping (SSFH) system. At NAB in April they will be introducing several improvements, most important is roaming capability. The way they do it is vastly superior to Cell-Com and Acrobat. Also the 2.4gHz SSFH modulation has very little effect on wifi, however if that concerns your facility, it can be programmed to avoid specific wifi channels. Each base can have 4 comm channels and program and each BP can listen to almost any combination. This frequency doesn't penetrate walls as well as UHF and if there are zones outside your main space, you may need additional bases.

The simplest solution would be Telex BTR in UHF band. As mentioned before be sure to RF coordinate before buying to select the best band. UHF will penetrate most walls well and give better single base coverage than the Tempest. 4 BP can operate and talk at the same time but additional BP can be added in Push to Transmit mode without adding more bases.
 
Re: Wireless Intercom Manufacturers (Vendors)?

Peter Erskine said:
Look into the Tempest 2.4gHz Spread Spectrum Frequency Hopping (SSFH) system. At NAB in April they will be introducing several improvements, most important is roaming capability. The way they do it is vastly superior to Cell-Com and Acrobat. Also the 2.4gHz SSFH modulation has very little effect on wifi, however if that concerns your facility, it can be programmed to avoid specific wifi channels. Each base can have 4 comm channels and program and each BP can listen to almost any combination. This frequency doesn't penetrate walls as well as UHF and if there are zones outside your main space, you may need additional bases.
Click to expand...

Peter,

How is the Tempest's roaming better than Acrobat?

How much would this matter in a 2-3 antenna Acrobat installation?

Thanks

Philip
 
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Re: Wireless Intercom Manufacturers (Vendors)?

I have 8 drops of DX-200 that after a little tweaking have proven to be solid. The only real issues i had were
an adjustment of a recieve gain pot "internal", and the tad of sidetone latency, for the BP user, when used with the CC base. With the proper adjustments on the beltpacs this has not been an issue. You also must do the proper setup when using 2 2.4 gig bases together so they will properly frequency hop.
Recently I had a picky production that demanded BTR, but after trying the HME's only one drop of the BTR rental was used. They liked the lighter weight. And audio quality was up to par. If you want to use a standard 4 pin headset they have adaptors, at a nominal cost. Also i have witnessed several outdoor TV shoots using DX-200 with rather long ranges, and was reported no issues. And with no CC bases interfaced no latency. Get a demo, see if it works for you. The pricepoint is very reasonable. It was just under 30K for 8 drops BTR or CC RF com, these were under half of that. Add in rechargable batteries. Being privately funded the choice was instantanious lol. It's my job to make it work for everybody. YMMV
 
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Re: Wireless Intercom Manufacturers (Vendors)?

Justice C. Bigler said:
Has it been completely discontinued? or just not selling it in the U.S.?

I guess I'll have to dig into what's going on when I see them at NAB in a couple weeks. Shame, because it was a great product, at least conceptually.
Click to expand...

Discontinued completely. That was the problem; it was a great product only conceptually. It never worked quite right (especially in the US market because of RF chipset limitations).
 
Re: Wireless Intercom Manufacturers (Vendors)?

Henry Cohen said:
Discontinued completely. That was the problem; it was a great product only conceptually. It never worked quite right (especially in the US market because of RF chipset limitations).
Click to expand...

How recent of a change is this? I've been working toward purchasing Acrobat for my church and last Monday a tech from Riedel was out to do a field performance verification.

As a random FYI their web site seems to be "down" at the moment.

Philip
 
Re: Wireless Intercom Manufacturers (Vendors)?

Philip Roberts said:
How recent of a change is this? I've been working toward purchasing Acrobat for my church and last Monday a tech from Riedel was out to do a field performance verification.
Click to expand...

I presume the internal Riedel decision is at least several months old if not longer. The news only started to leak out a few weeks ago. I would also presume they have existing inventory, or parts enough to build, they would like to sell off.
 
Re: Wireless Intercom Manufacturers (Vendors)?

Acrobat is in a band which it shares with telephone systems and will not work if there is a wireless phone system operating. Also the multiple antennas do not communicate well with each other and the belt-packs. separation of the antennas is important so that they do not share zones. The tempest system, since it uses a separate base station with different frequencies and local quality of service switching is more versatile and actually needs to have overlap in the zones. Tempest shares the band with wifi but uses a different modulation method which has little effect on wifi and is not affected itself by wifi.

In a small installation like yours both systems could be made to work as long as the Acrobat has the band to itself. It might be slightly less expensive, too since stations are not needed.
 
Re: Wireless Intercom Manufacturers (Vendors)?

Peter Erskine said:
In a small installation like yours both systems could be made to work as long as the Acrobat has the band to itself. It might be slightly less expensive, too since stations are not needed.
Click to expand...

I've seen the numbers. There's nothing "slightly less expensive" about Reidel equipment. Tempest may be ok if you can deal with a limited number of channels and/or configurations. If you want real matrix capability, then you need Cellcom or Acrobat.
 
Re: Wireless Intercom Manufacturers (Vendors)?

Justice C. Bigler said:
Tempest may be ok if you can deal with a limited number of channels and/or configurations. .
Click to expand...

With the soon to be announced upgrade in Tempest 2.4gHz, a maximum of 11 base stations can operate in the same area simultaneously, each with 5 full duplex beltpacks and 4 channels of comm interfaced. If you dont need 55 FD beltpacks in the same area, the bases can be placed in different "Zones" to extend seemlessly for roaming beltpacks.
 
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