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X32 Discussion
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<blockquote data-quote="Eric Eskam" data-source="post: 74620" data-attributes="member: 2124"><p>Re: New videos on youtube X32 vs Presonus SL</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You do realize that the hardware diversity for PC's is a pro <em>and</em> a con and that much of the stability on the Mac side is from its architecture? I don't care what audio software you are using - the "it just works" quotient will always be greater with Macs. Not that they are perfect - no system is. And I use both platforms extensively for a wide variety of functions. With audio, having good chipsets and drivers is paramount - there's only so much a developer like PreSonus can do. SIIG gets positive reviews for using good chipsets and being responsive in driver issues - some quick googling in the earlier FireWire discussions in this thread showed a ton of commentary about chipsets and drivers with audio - not just on Windows but some Mac models too. Even Apple can screw up. I run into similar issues with video all the time - good video drivers are paramount as well (Nvidia has been a clear winner for some time now). That's why if I have a choice, I spec Mac's. Even if I'm going to run Windows on 'em. My time is valuable and I more than make up the slight up front acquisition cost difference over the long run because I know the Apple hardware will be stable and predictable, and if on the rare occasion I get a lemon (like my late 2008 MacBook Pro that had the bad Nvidia chip) I can get support or return it. I don't have to worry about mid model swap out of some cheaper part so a new purchase of a model that used to work now suddenly doesn't(I'm looking at you Dell, though they are far from alone in this). And I have found my Mac's typically run twice as long as the PC's - unless I'm building the PC myself using parts that end up pushing the price close to what Apple charges anyway. Yup, you can find well built PC's if you look hard enough, but they are the exception rather than the norm since the one mantra you hear over and over is price, price, price so manufacturers respond. Rather than waste my time trying to find reviews that focus on more than price or play the model pot luck lottery I'd rather just spec Apple and worry about more interesting problems than finding stable hardware.</p><p></p><p>So don't necessarily take it out solely on PreSonus - make sure you have decent chips in your chain along with good drivers - and for the love of god at least be on Windows 7 or 8 with anything newer than three or four years. XP and Vista just need to die. XP in particular has a particularly awful driver model. Vista went a long way to addressing most of the fundimental mistakes (made around NT 4 in the name of performance) but MS really didn't get the new driver model dialed in until Windows 7. And Windows 8 is better still. Thank goodness classic shell.sourceforge.net restores the Win 7 UI to Windows 8. With Vista, the radical architecture change and mid development restart is why the Vista rollout was so painful. Thankfully that's long gone and vendors have caught up. Indeed finding drivers for XP on new hardware is the exception these days.</p><p></p><p>It's the sum of the parts - and audio with it's low latency demands will expose any weakness in your system VERY quickly. Latency is one of the reasons FireWire - even FW400 v. USB 3 - does much better for audio. FireWire can access memory directly without relying in the CPU. Then again, it was formed by Appe who was end user experience focused and the higher associated chipset costs were justfied in their mind. On the other hand USB was formed by Intel who's vested interest is in justifying more powerful CPUs along with keeping costs down by shifting processing from chipsets to the CPU. These kind of compromises are dictated by the "race to the bottom" mentality that exists on the PC side. The trade off is latency, throughput and increased system overhead (which these days is far less an issue than just a few years ago - CPUs are ridiculously overpowered for the vast majority of people these days, but memory bandwidth hasn't necessarily kept pace which is why this stuff is still significant). You can have flexibility, but you trade predictability and stability for it. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TANSTAAFL" target="_blank">TANSTAAFL</a> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Eric Eskam, post: 74620, member: 2124"] Re: New videos on youtube X32 vs Presonus SL You do realize that the hardware diversity for PC's is a pro [I]and[/I] a con and that much of the stability on the Mac side is from its architecture? I don't care what audio software you are using - the "it just works" quotient will always be greater with Macs. Not that they are perfect - no system is. And I use both platforms extensively for a wide variety of functions. With audio, having good chipsets and drivers is paramount - there's only so much a developer like PreSonus can do. SIIG gets positive reviews for using good chipsets and being responsive in driver issues - some quick googling in the earlier FireWire discussions in this thread showed a ton of commentary about chipsets and drivers with audio - not just on Windows but some Mac models too. Even Apple can screw up. I run into similar issues with video all the time - good video drivers are paramount as well (Nvidia has been a clear winner for some time now). That's why if I have a choice, I spec Mac's. Even if I'm going to run Windows on 'em. My time is valuable and I more than make up the slight up front acquisition cost difference over the long run because I know the Apple hardware will be stable and predictable, and if on the rare occasion I get a lemon (like my late 2008 MacBook Pro that had the bad Nvidia chip) I can get support or return it. I don't have to worry about mid model swap out of some cheaper part so a new purchase of a model that used to work now suddenly doesn't(I'm looking at you Dell, though they are far from alone in this). And I have found my Mac's typically run twice as long as the PC's - unless I'm building the PC myself using parts that end up pushing the price close to what Apple charges anyway. Yup, you can find well built PC's if you look hard enough, but they are the exception rather than the norm since the one mantra you hear over and over is price, price, price so manufacturers respond. Rather than waste my time trying to find reviews that focus on more than price or play the model pot luck lottery I'd rather just spec Apple and worry about more interesting problems than finding stable hardware. So don't necessarily take it out solely on PreSonus - make sure you have decent chips in your chain along with good drivers - and for the love of god at least be on Windows 7 or 8 with anything newer than three or four years. XP and Vista just need to die. XP in particular has a particularly awful driver model. Vista went a long way to addressing most of the fundimental mistakes (made around NT 4 in the name of performance) but MS really didn't get the new driver model dialed in until Windows 7. And Windows 8 is better still. Thank goodness classic shell.sourceforge.net restores the Win 7 UI to Windows 8. With Vista, the radical architecture change and mid development restart is why the Vista rollout was so painful. Thankfully that's long gone and vendors have caught up. Indeed finding drivers for XP on new hardware is the exception these days. It's the sum of the parts - and audio with it's low latency demands will expose any weakness in your system VERY quickly. Latency is one of the reasons FireWire - even FW400 v. USB 3 - does much better for audio. FireWire can access memory directly without relying in the CPU. Then again, it was formed by Appe who was end user experience focused and the higher associated chipset costs were justfied in their mind. On the other hand USB was formed by Intel who's vested interest is in justifying more powerful CPUs along with keeping costs down by shifting processing from chipsets to the CPU. These kind of compromises are dictated by the "race to the bottom" mentality that exists on the PC side. The trade off is latency, throughput and increased system overhead (which these days is far less an issue than just a few years ago - CPUs are ridiculously overpowered for the vast majority of people these days, but memory bandwidth hasn't necessarily kept pace which is why this stuff is still significant). You can have flexibility, but you trade predictability and stability for it. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TANSTAAFL"]TANSTAAFL[/URL] :) [/QUOTE]
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