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X32 Discussion
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<blockquote data-quote="Dan Mortensen" data-source="post: 83134" data-attributes="member: 2826"><p>Re: Monitor out noise</p><p></p><p>Hi Per,</p><p></p><p>Thanks for the thorough response.</p><p></p><p>Based on it, though, I think we are talking about two different things, one of which does not prove or disprove the other. I'll comment inline as you did:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>While the value of calibration is obvious, to me the calibration is the noise of the console into a speaker as it would be in real life. I want to look at the noise, not how far down it is relative to something else. The starting point is that I can hear an obnoxious sound with the monitor attenuator in its normal position and no signal going through the console. The relation of interest is the obnoxious noise to the acceptable noise floor, which I measured as around 9db. Taking that spike down 9 db or so with an outboard equalizer put it right into the noise floor.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I differ with you here. Your random spikes of 20 or so db are clearly visually masking whatever else is there. I don't think anyone can say with certainty what is in your plot and what isn't there, given this. Oh, and "my" spike wasn't 84dbu, it measured that when I shifted the traces up to be more in the middle of the window (I *think* that's what I did; have to fire up the SIM to be sure.) I don't think it matters, as I don't care about the absolute noise floor, post- deciding that it's audibly acceptable. As said earlier, I was more interested in the relationship between the good noise and the bad noise, which stays the same no matter where the traces are on the graph. </p><p></p><p>To reiterate, I certainly agree that the noise floor of the rest of the console is more than acceptable, but I do hear that bad noise on the monitor out XLR's.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Aha! Another reason your traces will look different than mine. I, too, subjectively felt that the nastiness at 44.1 was less objectionable than the nastiness at 48.0, so maybe you are benefitting from that? Can you try it at 48 and see if you then hear a more objectionable noise?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And you get exactly the same pattern with no input cables, i.e. antennae, connected to your computer? How about on battery power?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It'll be the end of the week before I can set a console up, but I'll see if 240 made up of 2 x 120 makes a difference. It would have the advantages of balanced power...</p><p></p><p>And my measurements were NOT with a UPS, although show operation is. I'll also confirm that UPS (USV) presence or absence makes no difference in this, as I suspect.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Emphasis added.</p><p></p><p>Not pointless because it's not showing anything, but probably pointless for the reason you state that I politely emphasized. </p><p></p><p>Very useful, though, in that it helps us narrow down variables that could contribute to the problem. I haven't thought about 44.1 vs. 48 hardly at all. </p><p></p><p>Also useful because you have not conclusively shown that you DON'T have the problem AFAIC, which keeps my theory alive, at least temporarily, that all consoles have the problem. Not that I like it, but it's nice to be right once in a while, and it's rare enough. :?~:-?~:???:</p><p></p><p>Thanks,</p><p>Dan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dan Mortensen, post: 83134, member: 2826"] Re: Monitor out noise Hi Per, Thanks for the thorough response. Based on it, though, I think we are talking about two different things, one of which does not prove or disprove the other. I'll comment inline as you did: While the value of calibration is obvious, to me the calibration is the noise of the console into a speaker as it would be in real life. I want to look at the noise, not how far down it is relative to something else. The starting point is that I can hear an obnoxious sound with the monitor attenuator in its normal position and no signal going through the console. The relation of interest is the obnoxious noise to the acceptable noise floor, which I measured as around 9db. Taking that spike down 9 db or so with an outboard equalizer put it right into the noise floor. I differ with you here. Your random spikes of 20 or so db are clearly visually masking whatever else is there. I don't think anyone can say with certainty what is in your plot and what isn't there, given this. Oh, and "my" spike wasn't 84dbu, it measured that when I shifted the traces up to be more in the middle of the window (I *think* that's what I did; have to fire up the SIM to be sure.) I don't think it matters, as I don't care about the absolute noise floor, post- deciding that it's audibly acceptable. As said earlier, I was more interested in the relationship between the good noise and the bad noise, which stays the same no matter where the traces are on the graph. To reiterate, I certainly agree that the noise floor of the rest of the console is more than acceptable, but I do hear that bad noise on the monitor out XLR's. Aha! Another reason your traces will look different than mine. I, too, subjectively felt that the nastiness at 44.1 was less objectionable than the nastiness at 48.0, so maybe you are benefitting from that? Can you try it at 48 and see if you then hear a more objectionable noise? And you get exactly the same pattern with no input cables, i.e. antennae, connected to your computer? How about on battery power? It'll be the end of the week before I can set a console up, but I'll see if 240 made up of 2 x 120 makes a difference. It would have the advantages of balanced power... And my measurements were NOT with a UPS, although show operation is. I'll also confirm that UPS (USV) presence or absence makes no difference in this, as I suspect. Emphasis added. Not pointless because it's not showing anything, but probably pointless for the reason you state that I politely emphasized. Very useful, though, in that it helps us narrow down variables that could contribute to the problem. I haven't thought about 44.1 vs. 48 hardly at all. Also useful because you have not conclusively shown that you DON'T have the problem AFAIC, which keeps my theory alive, at least temporarily, that all consoles have the problem. Not that I like it, but it's nice to be right once in a while, and it's rare enough. :?~:-?~:???: Thanks, Dan [/QUOTE]
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