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Junior Varsity
X32 Discussion
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<blockquote data-quote="Dan Mortensen" data-source="post: 83848" data-attributes="member: 2826"><p>Re: Monitor out noise</p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>Yes, this kind of relates to having this thread in the Junior Varsity, which by definition is for people who are doing sound sporadically as one step up from a hobby, or are getting ready to take that step, rather than currently generating serious money that can be used to get good stuff. This console kind of blurs the line between JV and Varsity, or at least it does for me. </p><p></p><p>There are many Varsity situations where there is no way the X32 would be appropriate (including every one where you need 33 full-featured inputs), but that still leaves numerous situations where it is just the thing. The festival I did last month would have cost around a quarter million dollars to do a year ago with purchased consoles/snake systems then available that would be comparable to the X32's. My company did it with X32's and accoutrements for in the ballpark of a tenth of that, and it was fine in almost every aspect. The areas where it was less than fine were operational rather than hardware related, and not noticed by anyone but my staff. And now I'm ready for next year and other events in the meantime!</p><p></p><p>FWIW, I am still a believer in separate amps for monitor systems, in part because the attenuator on the amp channels gives you one more tool when faced with an unsolveable noise, and also because the proper routing of powered monitor signal and power to be ready to cover a variety of situations is an expensive proposition. Other people are all on board with powered monitors, though, so they don't agree with me.</p><p></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>I am in the same boat with you on the last point (using stuff for other than its intended purpose), but differ with you about the first one when you don't have to mix and match, or when you mix and match with the proper control devices in between (this is a whole other thread).</p><p></p><p>Having the exact same box that performs exactly the same way in every situation removes a significant variable from the equation, IMHO. Having no controls to get left in the wrong position is a remarkable time-saver in most situations, and gives confidence in what is going on in that part of the system. Ignoring the issue of what could happen if there is a problem with box #16 that is way up in the air, an ignorance which is possible only if the manufacturer has made valiant efforts to build reliable gear and once in a while not even then, things get simple with no amp racks, although, again, power and signal distribution can be more complex than with unpowered systems. But there are generally fewer places in FOH PA needing power and signal runs, so once you've figured it out, that part is done. And no amp racks!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is still kind of missing my point. That set of monitor outputs is basically a Y'd output, let's say from the L-R outputs. If you physically removed the Monitor attenuator from the signal path and hard wired it through, the signal on the Monitor Outs would be EXACTLY the same as it is now with the attenuator full up, which is EXACTLY the same as the signal on the L-R outs (except coming through a different preamp), and that is what is wanted in Monitor world. </p><p></p><p>And, actually, it's SHOULD BE exactly the same but isn't now, because that output has a very different noise floor than the L-R outs, and that is what is objectionable without the workaround. Headroom does not enter into consideration one way or the other, because the headroom of the Monitor output should be exactly the same as the outputs it is monitoring.</p><p></p><p>So, no, I haven't tried what you suggest.</p><p></p><p>I do notice that the poor misguided souls who are attempting to use this live PA console as a recording console have been notably silent about this Monitor Out noise issue since I've started bloviating about it. I have ASSumed that they use the Monitor Outs as the feed for their studio monitors, but don't really know what goes on in those locked studios when the lights go out....</p><p></p><p>Maybe they've fixed it somehow to their satisfaction.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As you can see, I try, try, try, try again. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />~<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile :-)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />~:smile:</p><p></p><p>Thanks again for engaging in a discussion. I enjoy sharing points of view, and hope that comes across.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dan Mortensen, post: 83848, member: 2826"] Re: Monitor out noise Yes, this kind of relates to having this thread in the Junior Varsity, which by definition is for people who are doing sound sporadically as one step up from a hobby, or are getting ready to take that step, rather than currently generating serious money that can be used to get good stuff. This console kind of blurs the line between JV and Varsity, or at least it does for me. There are many Varsity situations where there is no way the X32 would be appropriate (including every one where you need 33 full-featured inputs), but that still leaves numerous situations where it is just the thing. The festival I did last month would have cost around a quarter million dollars to do a year ago with purchased consoles/snake systems then available that would be comparable to the X32's. My company did it with X32's and accoutrements for in the ballpark of a tenth of that, and it was fine in almost every aspect. The areas where it was less than fine were operational rather than hardware related, and not noticed by anyone but my staff. And now I'm ready for next year and other events in the meantime! FWIW, I am still a believer in separate amps for monitor systems, in part because the attenuator on the amp channels gives you one more tool when faced with an unsolveable noise, and also because the proper routing of powered monitor signal and power to be ready to cover a variety of situations is an expensive proposition. Other people are all on board with powered monitors, though, so they don't agree with me. I am in the same boat with you on the last point (using stuff for other than its intended purpose), but differ with you about the first one when you don't have to mix and match, or when you mix and match with the proper control devices in between (this is a whole other thread). Having the exact same box that performs exactly the same way in every situation removes a significant variable from the equation, IMHO. Having no controls to get left in the wrong position is a remarkable time-saver in most situations, and gives confidence in what is going on in that part of the system. Ignoring the issue of what could happen if there is a problem with box #16 that is way up in the air, an ignorance which is possible only if the manufacturer has made valiant efforts to build reliable gear and once in a while not even then, things get simple with no amp racks, although, again, power and signal distribution can be more complex than with unpowered systems. But there are generally fewer places in FOH PA needing power and signal runs, so once you've figured it out, that part is done. And no amp racks! This is still kind of missing my point. That set of monitor outputs is basically a Y'd output, let's say from the L-R outputs. If you physically removed the Monitor attenuator from the signal path and hard wired it through, the signal on the Monitor Outs would be EXACTLY the same as it is now with the attenuator full up, which is EXACTLY the same as the signal on the L-R outs (except coming through a different preamp), and that is what is wanted in Monitor world. And, actually, it's SHOULD BE exactly the same but isn't now, because that output has a very different noise floor than the L-R outs, and that is what is objectionable without the workaround. Headroom does not enter into consideration one way or the other, because the headroom of the Monitor output should be exactly the same as the outputs it is monitoring. So, no, I haven't tried what you suggest. I do notice that the poor misguided souls who are attempting to use this live PA console as a recording console have been notably silent about this Monitor Out noise issue since I've started bloviating about it. I have ASSumed that they use the Monitor Outs as the feed for their studio monitors, but don't really know what goes on in those locked studios when the lights go out.... Maybe they've fixed it somehow to their satisfaction. As you can see, I try, try, try, try again. :)~:-)~:smile: Thanks again for engaging in a discussion. I enjoy sharing points of view, and hope that comes across. [/QUOTE]
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