x32/s16 issue

D

Darren Scaresbrook

Freshman
Jan 22, 2012
71
1
8
Adelaide, Australia
www.concertsystems.com.au
I’m having an issue with a x32 and s16 system I have.

All works fine when using the inputs on the console, howeverif I use the s16’s as remote in/outs I get an intermittent loud pop sound onall outputs and lose audio for about 1 second. It is quite intermittent, so far2 shows with no problems and 2 shows where the console had to be swapped outmid show.
Due to the intermittent nature of this it is impossible totell if it is the console or s16’s.
I’ve tried several different cat5 cables. When the fault occursthe input channel meters show a large spike. Neither the console or s16’s seemsensitive to vibration/tapping.
The screen also seems to give a small flicker. This makes mewonder if it is a sync issue, as the screen normally flickers when connecting/disconnectingthe s16’s as they sync.

I have spoken with the retailer who put me on to the Australian service agent who wasalso unable to help and suggested I contact Behringer directly.
I have emailed Behringer(Joe Sanborn) and hoping to hear back from him soon.
I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has had similar problems.

Darren
 
Re: x32/s16 issue

Earlier someone mentioned an issue related to static electricity on the stage and touching a mic or something.

If you are using a shielded ether-cable try to remove the shielding from the p16-side of the cable as a test to make sure that the spike doesn't travel to the console...
 
Re: x32/s16 issue

Robert Lofgren said:
Earlier someone mentioned an issue related to static electricity on the stage and touching a mic or something.

If you are using a shielded ether-cable try to remove the shielding from the p16-side of the cable as a test to make sure that the spike doesn't travel to the console...
Click to expand...

Robert that was me who had the static issue with my system. I found out later that the building we worked in had a missing ground at the console power source. I also considered that maybe I needed a shielded Cat5 cable but later realized that a shielded Cat5 would not drain any static shock to ground. A shields purpose is to resist outside RF near the cable source. I also did not experience any screen flicker. This makes be believe that you have a console issue and not a S16 issue? Make sure you have firmware 1.12 installed and see if you can record your issue with the usb recorder and then post it hear so we can hear what your hearing or maybe a video would be nice. You mentioned that you had to make a change at a show because of the issue so is it safe to assume that it happens quite often??
 
Re: x32/s16 issue

Darren Scaresbrook said:
I’m having an issue with a x32 and s16 system I have.

All works fine when using the inputs on the console, howeverif I use the s16’s as remote in/outs I get an intermittent loud pop sound onall outputs and lose audio for about 1 second. It is quite intermittent, so far2 shows with no problems and 2 shows where the console had to be swapped outmid show.
Due to the intermittent nature of this it is impossible totell if it is the console or s16’s.
I’ve tried several different cat5 cables. When the fault occursthe input channel meters show a large spike. Neither the console or s16’s seemsensitive to vibration/tapping.
The screen also seems to give a small flicker. This makes mewonder if it is a sync issue, as the screen normally flickers when connecting/disconnectingthe s16’s as they sync.

I have spoken with the retailer who put me on to the Australian service agent who wasalso unable to help and suggested I contact Behringer directly.
I have emailed Behringer(Joe Sanborn) and hoping to hear back from him soon.
I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has had similar problems.

Darren
Click to expand...

Hi Darren,

I'm sorry to hear your are having problems with your X32/S16. I will PM you and we can discuss the matter further.

Kind Regards
Jim Knowles
CARE EMEA / Tech Support
Music Group / BEHRINGER
 
Re: x32/s16 issue

Hellos from Finland..
Darren I am having the exactly same problem with x32 and 3 s16's as You described: loud audio pops/display flash and 1 second dropouts on the very first time we used the console live yesterday (had to switch to board in a middle of the show)
Would be very interested have you figured out the problem?

Lasse Paasikko
 
Re: x32/s16 issue

Tests made by some users suggested that if you follow behringers advise of using shielded cat-6 with neutrik ethercons the issue went away.

The cause is due to a static discharge (dry air, carpets, etc...) that needs to be properly routed to ground that otherwise causes erronous data packets to enter the x32.
 
Re: x32/s16 issue

Robert Lofgren said:
Tests made by some users suggested that if you follow behringers advise of using shielded cat-6 with neutrik ethercons the issue went away.

The cause is due to a static discharge (dry air, carpets, etc...) that needs to be properly routed to ground that otherwise causes erronous data packets to enter the x32.
Click to expand...

Hello All,

I confirm having the same exact issue with regular CAT5 cables (200ft). I changed for CAT6 shielded and the issue was resolved. I do have an other phenomenon happening with carpets in ballrooms. If I am or any persons ''charged with static'' and you touch the console or case, the pop is there. If I remove my shoes, problem is not there anymore ... very strange physics !!

Othmane
 
Re: x32/s16 issue

Othmane Alaoui said:
Hello All,

I confirm having the same exact issue with regular CAT5 cables (200ft). I changed for CAT6 shielded and the issue was resolved. I do have an other phenomenon happening with carpets in ballrooms. If I am or any persons ''charged with static'' and you touch the console or case, the pop is there. If I remove my shoes, problem is not there anymore ... very strange physics !!
Click to expand...

Does your CAT6 have the Ethercons? Apparently they are critical for prevent ESD from causing problems.
 
Re: x32/s16 issue

Lasse Paasikko said:
Hellos from Finland..
Darren I am having the exactly same problem with x32 and 3 s16's as You described: loud audio pops/display flash and 1 second dropouts on the very first time we used the console live yesterday (had to switch to board in a middle of the show)
Would be very interested have you figured out the problem?

Lasse Paasikko
Click to expand...

Hi Lasse,

I ended up sending the console and 2 s16's back and the replaced them. The problem was still there with the new units.
Using shielded cat5 with properly terminated ethercons did not fix the problem. The cable worked fine with other consoles in the same situation, only the x32/s16's had problems.

I am currently using 50m of cheap install type cable and so far so good. Go figure!

FWIW I believe the balanced tx/rx pairs are running fairly close to the edge. Static can be an issue and also some people have reported being able to reproduce the problem by bending/pulling the cable. I was getting dropouts with no one anywhere near any part of the system. My shielded cable is a very high quality flexible type, 75m in length. It is stranded. The cheap cable I am now using is 50m and solid core. While it is cheap, it is probably electrically superior due to the shorter length and solid conductors.

I would not say this is a common issue, but there are enough reports to make it more than user error. It is obvious there will be some user error, poor cabling/power etc. However, the x32 has broadened Behringers customer base from the MI base it has traditionally been, to many users with a high degree of technical ability. It is reports of problems from these type of users that tend to give credence there is a genuine problem.

My observation is, longer length cable(75m) with stranded cores, and very dry conditions(I'm in Australia) "may" be getting a little too close to the edge of system performance.

Darren
 
Re: x32/s16 issue

Greg Cameron said:
Does your CAT6 have the Ethercons? Apparently they are critical for prevent ESD from causing problems.
Click to expand...
I would also check if the electrical ground (earth) is good. That static needs somewhere to go and if it can't get to ground it's gonna affect the mixer.
 
Re: x32/s16 issue

Daniel Levi said:
I would also check if the electrical ground (earth) is good. That static needs somewhere to go and if it can't get to ground it's gonna affect the mixer.
Click to expand...

+1

I have to admit that I have not investigated the issue extensively, simply because I haven't had an issue. Norway in the winter can often be a nightmare for static build-up due to the extremely low humidity we can experience on some days. On some days you can't go up to a microphone or any other equipment without getting a good whack of static discharge, inevitably causing a pop in the speakers, thus confirming that the requirements for potential problems are met.
So why don't I have problems? This is of course only speculation, but the common denominator with all my set-ups is that every piece of equipment is connected to the Norwegian power-grid, and that means two live phases and a proper ground that effectively drains any static build-up and discharge from someone charged touching the equipment. With all equipment efficiently being kept on the same potential, there is little opportunity for signal disturbance coming from charges travelling along the AES50-cables.
Additionally, a stable power-supply, often ensured by a UPS, keeps any fluctuations from potentially disturbing the (very sensitive) AES50-sync.

I am using the Thomann ssnake cat 50, which I'm not even sure is shielded though it has the Ethercons, but have also been using both STP and UTP cat5 cables without ethercons without any issue, indicating that my set-up is basically healthy enough not to need the added safety of a properly spec'd aes50 cable.
 
Darren Scaresbrook said:
Re: x32/s16 issue



Hi Lasse,

I ended up sending the console and 2 s16's back and the replaced them. The problem was still there with the new units.
Using shielded cat5 with properly terminated ethercons did not fix the problem. The cable worked fine with other consoles in the same situation, only the x32/s16's had problems.

I am currently using 50m of cheap install type cable and so far so good. Go figure!

FWIW I believe the balanced tx/rx pairs are running fairly close to the edge. Static can be an issue and also some people have reported being able to reproduce the problem by bending/pulling the cable. I was getting dropouts with no one anywhere near any part of the system. My shielded cable is a very high quality flexible type, 75m in length. It is stranded. The cheap cable I am now using is 50m and solid core. While it is cheap, it is probably electrically superior due to the shorter length and solid conductors.

I would not say this is a common issue, but there are enough reports to make it more than user error. It is obvious there will be some user error, poor cabling/power etc. However, the x32 has broadened Behringers customer base from the MI base it has traditionally been, to many users with a high degree of technical ability. It is reports of problems from these type of users that tend to give credence there is a genuine problem.

My observation is, longer length cable(75m) with stranded cores, and very dry conditions(I'm in Australia) "may" be getting a little too close to the edge of system performance.

Darren
Click to expand...


Hi Darren,

I am having the same issue with X32. I am in Sydney, Australia. Please let me know if you were able to fix this issue.

Cheers
Ben
 
Hello,
Do you use an inverter? I do. X32 FOH, X32 Monitors and 2 x DL16 (S16 in the past) plugged into the inverter (Eaton Eclippse max 1500), whitout issues. Always use an inverter with digital mixer !






 
Hmm. I would start looking at the AES50 connections first: I had a batch of X32/S16s where the pins in the ethercons would slide backwards and sometimes would fail to make contact. The result was exactly as described here: loud plops etc. I ended up opening the X32/S16s and fixing the pins with some hot glue. No issue since then (and I don’t use power conditioners or anything). So, my advise: check your connections. Move the connectors a bit and see if you can trigger the issue.
 
You will have to forgive me if this has already been covered as I have not read through all of the posts in this thread but we were having a loud pop that sounded like a gun shoot in the middle of our services. This continued for about 3 months after purchasing the x32. We had checked all of our Cat5 lines multiple times and they all showed that the ground was connected properly. After trying multiple fixes and a few different electricians we purchased the Behringer NCAT5E-50M to connect our x32 with our sd16s and haven't had an issue since. We were frustrated that we couldn't solve it without paying another $300 but we are glad to not be spending the service on edge waiting for the next POP.
 
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