Disparity in specification: PRX618S-XLF vs VRX918SP

Re: Desparity in specification: PRX618S-XLF vs VRX918SP

Chris Davis said:
All this yapping got me interested enough to try and look this up.. It looks as if the VRX918SP and PRX618S-XLF both use the same driver, but unless I am missing something it is not the 2268HPL (also possibly known as the 351210-003X) as the SRX series uses. Rather, it is the 364537-001X. Although according to this, the VRX918S (NOT the VRX918SP) uses the same driver as the SRX series (351210-003X). Are they interchangeable?? That is between you and the JBL gods.
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SRX718S and VRX918S both use the 2268H (same as HPL) which is a single coil, 8-ohm driver
VRX819SP and PRX618S-XLF both use the 2268FF, which is a dual voice coil driver with each coil being 2 ohms

AFAIK, the PRX618S-XLF uses two 500W amps, one on each coil. I'm not sure how the VRX918SP gets its power, but I kind of assume it's one amp with the coils in series.
 
Re: Desparity in specification: PRX618S-XLF vs VRX918SP

Silas Pradetto said:
I think the VRX would be acceptable anywhere the PRX would be, though the opposite is probably not true.
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"Acceptable" wasn't the point - matching what other folks 'round here have was :). I've seen many PRX618XLF around but none of the VRX.
 
Re: Desparity in specification: PRX618S-XLF vs VRX918SP

Matt Vivlamore said:
If I am not mistaken, from what I've been told is that:

VRX918SP is a 2 channel amp with channel being 750w amp (1 channel per coil)

PRX718S-XLF is using a single amp channel over the pair of coils.
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This is from the JBL website:

The PRX618S-XLF is comprised of a powerful 2268FF Differential Drive® dual voice-coil and magnetic gap, neodymium woofer driven by a 1000 Watt (dual 500 watt) Crown Class-D power amplifier. Dual-Bridge Technology™ directly links discrete amplifier channel outputs to each voice coil in the Differential Drive woofer. Electrical power transfer to the transducer is optimized for more power performance

I think this also accounts for the different part numbers between the powered and unpowered versions using the same driver.

Oops, I see Silas already addressed that issue.

Anyway, I'm happy to see that JBL is using the newest technology to make products that can produce more SPL with less power and less weight for less money!
 
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Re: Desparity in specification: PRX618S-XLF vs VRX918SP

Silas Pradetto said:
SRX718S and VRX918S both use the 2268H (same as HPL) which is a single coil, 8-ohm driver
VRX819SP and PRX618S-XLF both use the 2268FF, which is a dual voice coil driver with each coil being 2 ohms

AFAIK, the PRX618S-XLF uses two 500W amps, one on each coil. I'm not sure how the VRX918SP gets its power, but I kind of assume it's one amp with the coils in series.
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The 2268H still uses the Dual Voice Coils but internally connected and you only get 1 set of terminals to plug into. I haven't seen the back of an 2268FF driver to see if there is 2 pairs of terminals.

Picture of a 2268H (Not mine)
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Here is some pictures of the Re-Cone for a 2268H... I have found any for the FF online to see what it looks like. http://www.reconingspeakers.com/pro...recone-kits/jbl-2268h-hpl-c8r2268-recone-kit/
 
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Re: Desparity in specification: PRX618S-XLF vs VRX918SP

Silas,

I in no way intend to insult your intelligence or business acumen, but I wanted to make a couple of observations and share my thoughts. If the PRX is cheaper and you won't lose gigs utilizing them, then go with them and increase your ROI. If you'll lose work (and reputation as a quality provider-and I'm not saying you would) with the PRX over the VRX then the question would be how much work would you lose? If the lost work is greater than the price difference (I realize it wouldn't take much with the price difference between the two) then go with the VRX. As a business, I always try to spend the least amount of money I can to maximize profits. Sometimes it means buying a lower priced product and sometimes spending the extra money just makes better business sense.

Bottom line, which one will make you the most money?
 
Re: Desparity in specification: PRX618S-XLF vs VRX918SP

^^^Thats a good thought. Who is your average client? DJ, yard parties, local band, corp gigs.....?
What tops do you have to go with the new powered subs?
 
Re: Desparity in specification: PRX618S-XLF vs VRX918SP

Mike Dixon said:
Silas,

I in no way intend to insult your intelligence or business acumen, but I wanted to make a couple of observations and share my thoughts. If the PRX is cheaper and you won't lose gigs utilizing them, then go with them and increase your ROI. If you'll lose work (and reputation as a quality provider-and I'm not saying you would) with the PRX over the VRX then the question would be how much work would you lose? If the lost work is greater than the price difference (I realize it wouldn't take much with the price difference between the two) then go with the VRX. As a business, I always try to spend the least amount of money I can to maximize profits. Sometimes it means buying a lower priced product and sometimes spending the extra money just makes better business sense.

Bottom line, which one will make you the most money?
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If you are running VRX or PRX as your rig, are you really in a position to worry about acceptability? On any show that small I could bring in a $30 car audio sub and the client probably wouldn't care as long as it sounded good and looked discreet. Just get whatever offers the better performance for the money. We're not talking about buying $60k worth of touring subs to fulfill riders here.
 
Re: Desparity in specification: PRX618S-XLF vs VRX918SP

Tom Manchester said:
We're not talking about buying $60k worth of touring subs to fulfill riders here.
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If you owned 4 or 6 of the VRX, you could add a few more and happily fill riders in small regional market and have an enclosure that can fully scale down to small gigs. If it's purely SOS, I agree the added cost of the VRX wouldn't really make sense. The VRX subs can facilitate all sorts of professional deployments that simply aren't feasible with the PRX option though, which could be a boon in a market that is otherwise hard to differentiate yourself in. Whether or not those features are necessary or to be used would likely be my first decision. If it's not really necessary, ask yourself if the additional cost of the VRX is worth the performance improvement. To answer that question, you'd really need to do a side by side, keeping in mind the needs of your client rather than your personal preference for the best possible sound at any cost. My experience with SOS clients is much like Tom's; they couldn't care less unless it's completely insufficient, hideously ugly, or smells like last nights beer-olympics turned cheap-cigar infused foam party (though they sometimes ask 'how many watts is that?'). Oh yeah... they're really cheap sometimes too!
 
Re: Desparity in specification: PRX618S-XLF vs VRX918SP

Tom Manchester said:
If you are running VRX or PRX as your rig, are you really in a position to worry about acceptability? On any show that small I could bring in a $30 car audio sub and the client probably wouldn't care as long as it sounded good and looked discreet. Just get whatever offers the better performance for the money. We're not talking about buying $60k worth of touring subs to fulfill riders here.
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Tom, I find your post rather condescending. Even big shops need SOS rental gear and drum subs. That's exactly the place these subwoofers are going to fill in my company.

I'm sure with your uncaring attitude you score lots of repeat customers. Well, in my company, I actually do care about every minute detail, getting the best performance I can out of everything I own, whether it's a $5 item or a $5000 item.

So, in my OP, I asked if it was worth the extra ~$400 for the VRX over the PRX. After reading the discussion that many have provided, I'm going to get the VRX.
 
Re: Desparity in specification: PRX618S-XLF vs VRX918SP

Silas Pradetto said:
Tom, I find your post rather condescending. Even big shops need SOS rental gear and drum subs. That's exactly the place these subwoofers are going to fill in my company.

I'm sure with your uncaring attitude you score lots of repeat customers. Well, in my company, I actually do care about every minute detail, getting the best performance I can out of everything I own, whether it's a $5 item or a $5000 item.

So, in my OP, I asked if it was worth the extra ~$400 for the VRX over the PRX. After reading the discussion that many have provided, I'm going to get the VRX.
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His post, as I read it, was not meant to be condescending to you but rather reflect the fairly basic criteria of the SOS rental market. The disregard for acceptability is through the eyes of the client and if there was any condescension, it was towards the average rental client and not the provider. I'm sure Tom does care, and I myself have had success approaching small scale production from a client perspective. It's the difference between telling them what they need and understanding what they want with the hope of reconciling that with what they need. Marginal differences in subwoofer performance tend not to come up in these evaluations, which I think was Tom's point.

One other advantage with the VRX over the PRX is that the previous PRX sub was less than stellar. The new PRX stuff may bring with it some of the stigma of the older products among professional or quasi-professional users. I think you'll be happy with the VRX performance (**though I haven't heard the new PRX so I have no reference point**) but I tend to think that both are very close together in the otherwise large spectrum of possible SR subs.
 
Re: Desparity in specification: PRX618S-XLF vs VRX918SP

Silas Pradetto said:
Tom, I find your post rather condescending. Even big shops need SOS rental gear and drum subs. That's exactly the place these subwoofers are going to fill in my company.

I'm sure with your uncaring attitude you score lots of repeat customers. Well, in my company, I actually do care about every minute detail, getting the best performance I can out of everything I own, whether it's a $5 item or a $5000 item.

So, in my OP, I asked if it was worth the extra ~$400 for the VRX over the PRX. After reading the discussion that many have provided, I'm going to get the VRX.
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Silas you missed my point completely. I make half my living off of renting speaker on stick rigs for all levels of clientele that I DO care quite a bit about, and yes, I have a very loyal and rapidly expanding following of customers.

My point was, and Marlow got it, that someone mentioned VRX or PRX being "acceptable." My argument is that for the type and quality of boxes you are talking about, having them be "acceptable" is a moot point. Let me explain as though I was doing a sales pitch of the "lesser sub" the PRX to a number of clients going up the food chain and see if it makes sense.

Bar Band: "This new PRX is really great, the drummers love it, and yeah, it's JBL, they make really pro stuff! Sure, I'll do that gig for $350"

Corporate: "Yes sir, this subwoofer will adequately give you the bass you wanted for your video just as we discussed over the phone. I'll go ahead and hide it back behind this pipe and drape so it looks nice and tidy"

C Level national Engineer: "Yeah, these PRX subs work great, They can easily reach 110db back at FOH, I was metering it back at FOH last week when we had -national dj act- and we were hitting down in the 40hz range. There are 4 of them in here and one more for the drumfill"

A Level national act: "Here are the touring quality L'Acoustics subs you requested on your rider. Yeah, I've got some of those little PRX subs, they work great, got some out on a little corporate gig right now bringing in some extra cash this weekend"

So my point was not to knock the quality of either box, I'm just saying that up until the higher levels (which either the PRX or VRX would be marginal to satisfy) that "acceptability" is a non-issue. In fact I can't recall the last time that *anyone* in 8 years asked me what brand or model of SOS sub I was bringing out. Most people just want to see that little orange sticker. YMMV, I'd get whatever sounds and performs better.
 
Re: Desparity in specification: PRX618S-XLF vs VRX918SP

Something to think about. Both boxes share the same Driver for the most part. Construction is pretty close other than flyware, sound should be similar. Rental wise, for two VRX you can buy 3 XLF subs(atleast close to that range). Rentals are all about return on investment and making money.
Plus you wont have to worry about use a powercon supply with the PRX.
 
Re: Disparity in specification: PRX618S-XLF vs VRX918SP

Marlow Wilson said:
Some people would worry more about NOT having powercon.
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Agreed, thinking only about SOS rentals. More than likely the tops that will be used will be Eons, PRX or something similar. If the tops are all using IEC connectors I would think it might be easier to use the same for the subs. If a client looses a Powercon on Saturday night, their SOL. IEC's can be found at any Target, Walmart or in the kids bedroom.
May really not be any issue, just kinda thinking what would be easier for the average sheep that might rent a SOS system for a party.
 
Re: Desparity in specification: PRX618S-XLF vs VRX918SP

Jamin Lynch said:
I've USED both....get the VRX.
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Hi Jamin, can you provide a few details about your setup?

The advantages I see in VRX918SP are that it has a wider footprint which allows for higher placed tops. The square format makes it also more visually appealing but more importantly it is part of a scalable array system which protects one investment should the business expand. For folks interested in buying one or two of them for stage floor setups it looks like PRX618S-XLF is a better bang for the buck for average setups. One can buy three 618S-XLF's for the same amount spent on two VRX918SP. For anything more we would be in a different class and look at the VRX line. Folks lucky enough to require more units would be successful enough in their business to trade them and upgrade after a while. For the small venue DJs, it looks like one or two PRX618S-XLFs are a great JBL bang for the buck.

Spec-wise the VRX goes down to 34 Hz @ 3dB but then looses the edge with 31Hz @ 10dB. It also takes 10% more power. Back label says 600W power draw on both models. PRX618S-XLF is 39 Hz @ 3dB and 30Hz @ 10dB. The former has a slightly bigger case that makes it more efficient and produces 133 dB vs. 126dB. I also think that using one amp for both coils is more efficient. There is no way to match components to such degree that both amp sections will be in sync.

Your comments are appreciated. Cheers!
 
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