So, what are some warning signs that a stage may be unsafe?

C

Chad Young

Freshman
May 17, 2011
59
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0
North Central FL
Hi, everyone! First time poster, long time lurker.

So, the events this weekend at the Indiana State Fair have gotten me thinking about safety, stages, and rigging and how I can take some basic steps to make sure the environment I am working in is reasonably safe.

For some background - I am your basic weekend warrior doing odd work as a bass player, DJ, and sound guy. I am *not* an ankle biter! I don't do sound jobs except for bands I am in or for friends and charities I support directly and, even then, know when it is time to step aside and let a real sound company do the work. I do, however, perform on many stages and venues as a bass player and ballroom dancer and have seen some rather questionable stuff in some venues or done by the sound providers.

So, here is my $64 question - What are some basic things I should look for on a stage or venue that would be warning signs that the structure, systems, or other performance-related gear I am working in or around may not be safe or physically sound?

My goal in asking this is to be able to understand and absorb some of the red flags and warning signs you pay attention to when setting up your gear in a venue. I have personally already had to stop working one room locally due to the Peavey SP1Gs hanging from the ceiling via screws in the top wood and open s hooks!

I thank you all for any advice or experience you care to share. This is all in the interest of keeping it safe out there and learning from those with more experience than I.
 
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Re: So, what are some warning signs that a stage may be unsafe?

There are many things in these pictures that you don't want to see on any roof you are within 50' of:

http://gallery.me.com/fitzcosound#100008
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Oh, dear Goodness! Even as little as I know about rigging, that scared the s--t out of me. Upside down hoists, dented truss, wrong truss....gonna go hurl.

I very rarely get involved with shows on this scale. Any small-venue gotchas you all have seen?
 
Re: So, what are some warning signs that a stage may be unsafe?

On the smaller gigs the main thing to watch out for is the electrical. There's some really bad wiring out there. Get you a tester to make sure the positive and negitive and grounds are where they are supposed to be.

Other than that, watch out for spilled beers on the stage.
 
Re: So, what are some warning signs that a stage may be unsafe?

Chad Young said:
Oh, dear Goodness! Even as little as I know about rigging, that scared the s--t out of me. Upside down hoists
Click to expand...
Remember that we use "upside down" (or inverted) hoists compared to almost every other industry that uses chain hoists.
Normal hoists hang from a structure and pay out their chain downward whereas ours climb using the chain.
 
Re: So, what are some warning signs that a stage may be unsafe?

Jamin Lynch said:
On the smaller gigs the main thing to watch out for is the electrical. There's some really bad wiring out there. Get you a tester to make sure the positive and negitive and grounds are where they are supposed to be.

...
Click to expand...

There is no positive and negative with AC. There are hots and neutrals.
 
Re: So, what are some warning signs that a stage may be unsafe?

Jamin Lynch said:
OK, whatever. I think he knows what I meant.
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I disagree. The first step in safety is getting the terminology correct. Assuming that someone knows what you mean when not using correct terminology is a recipe for misunderstanding. Misunderstanding leads to problems, potentially dangerous ones. If you put a 3 wire feeder in someone's hands that doesn't know much about AC power distribution and tell them to connect the positive, negative and ground up to that there panel, they might assume you mean connect red & white wires to the red and black wires in the panel. And green to ground. Whoops. After the gear has fried, the next question is probably going to be, "what's a neutral?". I don't meant to nitpick, but you can't be lazy about stuff like that. If you tell them "hook the red wire to hot and the white wire to neutral," they're much more likely to ask what you're talking about if they don't understand. Obviously this unknowledgeable person shouldn't be anywhere near a panel and this may seem like an unlikely scenario, but stranger things have happened.

Greg
 
Re: So, what are some warning signs that a stage may be unsafe?

Greg Cameron said:
I disagree. The first step in safety is getting the terminology correct. Assuming that someone knows what you mean when not using correct terminology is a recipe for misunderstanding. Misunderstanding leads to problems, potentially dangerous ones. If you put a 3 wire feeder in someone's hands that doesn't know much about AC power distribution and tell them to connect the positive, negative and ground up to that there panel, they might assume you mean connect red & white wires to the red and black wires in the panel. And green to ground. Whoops. After the gear has fried, the next question is probably going to be, "what's a neutral?". I don't meant to nitpick, but you can't be lazy about stuff like that. If you tell them "hook the red wire to hot and the white wire to neutral," they're much more likely to ask what you're talking about if they don't understand. Obviously this unknowledgeable person shouldn't be anywhere near a panel and this may seem like an unlikely scenario, but stranger things have happened.

Greg
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Here we go again with a bunch a crap that's totally off the OP's subject from one of the vultures who sit up in the trees waiting to pounce on any body who asks a stupid question or misspells a word to show off they are smarter than every one else.

Watch out for bad electricity. Get a meter....plug it in the outlet....if you get green lights, you're OK....if not, you're fucked.
 
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Or maybe people like you should even touch electricity I have seen friends die from an electrical misunderstanding. Just because you assume something doesn't mean it is.


To the op. Like a couple people have said, if you feel something off it probably is. If you can ask them when the last time its been inspected and ask to see the signature.

Sent from my ADR6300
 
Re: So, what are some warning signs that a stage may be unsafe?

Thanks, everyone. Strangely, I have a pretty good knowledge of electrical systems and routinely check power at venues. I will never forget stepping up to a microphone in a practice room and getting a nice blue arc from mic to mouth. Ouch! Turns out the amp was faulty and the room's ground was bad as well.

Here is a pic of the bad hang I mentioned earlier:

hownottohangacab2.jpg
 
Re: So, what are some warning signs that a stage may be unsafe?

Milt Hathaway said:
There are many things in these pictures that you don't want to see on any roof you are within 50' of:

http://gallery.me.com/fitzcosound#100008
Click to expand...

Along with posting the bad pictures, you should include text as to what's wrong in the pictures. While some are obvious, others are less so to the untrained eye.
 
Re: So, what are some warning signs that a stage may be unsafe?

Jamin Lynch said:
Here we go again with a bunch a crap that's totally off the OP's subject from one of the vultures who sit up in the trees waiting to pounce on any body who asks a stupid question or misspells a word to show off they are smarter than every one else.

Watch out for bad electricity. Get a meter....plug it in the outlet....if you get green lights, you're OK....if not, you're fucked.
Click to expand...

Jamin. With all due respect, you were the one who took the thread on a tangent from the original post. And you were called out for posting technically incorrect information. That happens on these board for a reason - to clarify and educate so others don't misunderstand or make mistakes. People come here to learn all the time. Why shouldn't false information be corrected, especially when it pertains to electrical safety issues? If you consider me a vulture, so be it. I don't claim to be "smarter" than everyone else. But I don't believe that technically incorrect information should go unchallenged. Otherwise what's the point of having these forums at all? I learn a lot from them myself. I don't want to learn it wrong either.

Greg
 
Re: So, what are some warning signs that a stage may be unsafe?

Missing fasteners, fasteners or holding devices that aren't rated for the work being done (grade 3 or grade 5 hardware used for truss; c-clamps holding the roof to scaffolding), formed (not forged) eye bolts, eye bolts without shoulders. Shims that are too small to spread a load or aren't fully centered under a load.

It helps to have an eye for basic mechanical physics. The goal of any suspension system is to transfer the load safely to the ground. In Milt's pictures you will see chain hoists attached to the tower headblock, rather than like this cat-24-selfclimbing.gif where the chain goes over the headblock and attaches to the truss, as does the hoist. This loads the tower evenly. The other way? Eh, no.

Unequal guying is another. If guy lines on opposite sides of a structure are at noticeably different angles, the tension that keeps the towers in place is not equal on both sides. One will fail before the other.

Anything overhead that relies exclusively on gravity to keep it in place. Clamping or fastening systems that are inadequate, no safety cables on lights.

Orange extension cords on anything but the lighting guy's fan.

I'll probably think of more tomorrow.

Have fun, stay safe.

Tim Mc
 
Re: So, what are some warning signs that a stage may be unsafe?

Tim McCulloch said:
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Orange extension cords on anything but the lighting guy's fan.

...
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I'm actually going to have to disagree with you there. Being in the Midwest, in an area not really well situated for concerts and the like, Orange extension cords are definitely not a sign its unsafe. Less professional? maybe but generally not unsafe. Just locally I know of several local and some regional touring bands that use orange extension cords to power their LED lights, Getting power to their guitar/bass amps, as well as several other pieces of equipment.

I think a lot of us get too stuck up on gear we forget where we originated from and technically still use (albeit different colors). a 12/3 SO is still SO even if its orange, blue, green, black, or yellow.
 
Re: So, what are some warning signs that a stage may be unsafe?

Jordan Lahr said:
I'm actually going to have to disagree with you there. Being in the Midwest, in an area not really well situated for concerts and the like, Orange extension cords are definitely not a sign its unsafe. Less professional? maybe but generally not unsafe. Just locally I know of several local and some regional touring bands that use orange extension cords to power their LED lights, Getting power to their guitar/bass amps, as well as several other pieces of equipment.

I think a lot of us get too stuck up on gear we forget where we originated from and technically still use (albeit different colors). a 12/3 SO is still SO even if its orange, blue, green, black, or yellow.
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Yeah...true, 12/3 is 12/3, but what Mr. McCulloch is hinting at is that if it's an orange cord, it's PROBABLY not 12/3. as most orange cords are 16/3 or 14/3 bought from the local depot store. And...how professional can someone be in regards to the Entertainment business if they're actually using an orange cord?

If they dismiss this detail, what else could they be dismissing? Are they buying hardware from the depot store too? Sure, not all hardware from the depot store is junky, questionably rated, Chinese cast hardware, but is there a verified rating on this hardware? Or, is it unrated?

Mr. McCulloch has plenty of experience, and his Orange Cord suggestion was a warning that such indicators may be cause for further inquiry.

Hammer
 
Re: So, what are some warning signs that a stage may be unsafe?

Jordan Lahr said:
I'm actually going to have to disagree with you there. Being in the Midwest, in an area not really well situated for concerts and the like, Orange extension cords are definitely not a sign its unsafe. Less professional? maybe but generally not unsafe. Just locally I know of several local and some regional touring bands that use orange extension cords to power their LED lights, Getting power to their guitar/bass amps, as well as several other pieces of equipment.

I think a lot of us get too stuck up on gear we forget where we originated from and technically still use (albeit different colors). a 12/3 SO is still SO even if its orange, blue, green, black, or yellow.
Click to expand...

The sound you heard was this going over your head so fast the rest of us saw your hair move. Hammer, however, groked the concept.
 
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