New outdoor stage laws?!?!
- Thread starter Bill Forbes
- Start date
Re: New outdoor stage laws?!?!
Holding the audience at the gate until the inspectors sign off on the way the headliner's gear is flown will be very interesting. Interesting scheduling issues.
Holding the audience at the gate until the inspectors sign off on the way the headliner's gear is flown will be very interesting. Interesting scheduling issues.
Re: New outdoor stage laws?!?!
Well that is one way to get rid of the ankle biters-outside anyway.
At least for more than the keg party type of events.
Well that is one way to get rid of the ankle biters-outside anyway.
At least for more than the keg party type of events.
Re: New outdoor stage laws?!?!
I think there's a lot of good that will come out some sort of standard on temporary structures.
At the same time, I feel like most cities (especially NYC) are going to take advantage of this, and charge tremendous amounts for various permits. Every year they'll add another two or three for stage operators to have.
I think there's a lot of good that will come out some sort of standard on temporary structures.
At the same time, I feel like most cities (especially NYC) are going to take advantage of this, and charge tremendous amounts for various permits. Every year they'll add another two or three for stage operators to have.
Re: New outdoor stage laws?!?!
Am I reading it right to think it will apply to a couple of risers on the lawn for an evening jazz trio?
If so, it will kill that.
Am I reading it right to think it will apply to a couple of risers on the lawn for an evening jazz trio?
If so, it will kill that.
Re: New outdoor stage laws?!?!
One of my 20+ year clients is a State of Kansas regulatory agency and its Commission. After watching the legislative and regulatory process for 2 decades, I can say with certainty that the document linked from the PLSN site will not be the law as adopted.
It's a beginning. It's going to the Indiana House. Probably a conference committee will follow, and then the governor still has to sign it.
After that, the various agencies will have to write the regulations as they are to be enforced. Those agencies have public hearings on regulations and within the confines of the law, can modify, adopt or reject proposed regulatory language.
Don't panic.... yet.
One of my 20+ year clients is a State of Kansas regulatory agency and its Commission. After watching the legislative and regulatory process for 2 decades, I can say with certainty that the document linked from the PLSN site will not be the law as adopted.
It's a beginning. It's going to the Indiana House. Probably a conference committee will follow, and then the governor still has to sign it.
After that, the various agencies will have to write the regulations as they are to be enforced. Those agencies have public hearings on regulations and within the confines of the law, can modify, adopt or reject proposed regulatory language.
Don't panic.... yet.
Re: New outdoor stage laws?!?!
38 (b) The term does not include:
39 (1) any part of a Class 1 structure, regulated amusement
40 device, or regulated lifting device that is otherwise regulated
41 under this article, IC 22-13, IC 22-14, or IC 22-15 for load
42 bearing capacity or wind resistance, or both, as determined
3
1 under the rules of the commission; or
2 (2) a small structure or an assembly of structures that does
3 not exceed the maximum size or weight limits (after the
4 addition of all supported equipment) established by the
5 commission.
So, according to that, the commission can set a size requirement before a permit is required. Without that, putting a speaker on a stick could have been considered a structure requiring a permit. Could you imagine the insanity of that??
38 (b) The term does not include:
39 (1) any part of a Class 1 structure, regulated amusement
40 device, or regulated lifting device that is otherwise regulated
41 under this article, IC 22-13, IC 22-14, or IC 22-15 for load
42 bearing capacity or wind resistance, or both, as determined
3
1 under the rules of the commission; or
2 (2) a small structure or an assembly of structures that does
3 not exceed the maximum size or weight limits (after the
4 addition of all supported equipment) established by the
5 commission.
So, according to that, the commission can set a size requirement before a permit is required. Without that, putting a speaker on a stick could have been considered a structure requiring a permit. Could you imagine the insanity of that??
Re: New outdoor stage laws?!?!
Those proposals sound very like the kind of thing we already have over here, at a festival it's not just the stage and other structures that need signed off any evacuation plan, access routes for emergency vehicles and punters, stewarding, toilets you name it all need to be signed off before doors. And yes there is a charge for this, in Glasgow its around £200-£300 to sign off a mobile stage. G
Those proposals sound very like the kind of thing we already have over here, at a festival it's not just the stage and other structures that need signed off any evacuation plan, access routes for emergency vehicles and punters, stewarding, toilets you name it all need to be signed off before doors. And yes there is a charge for this, in Glasgow its around £200-£300 to sign off a mobile stage. G
Re: New outdoor stage laws?!?!
Cursory read makes me wonder if I need a permit for a popup over FOH.
Cursory read makes me wonder if I need a permit for a popup over FOH.
Re: New outdoor stage laws?!?!
Here in SC, you currently don't need a permit, but the inspector can require you to modify your setup. Example was we were required to have a minimum of 75Lbs at each corner of the FOH popup and wanted to see the drawings a certifications for the roof structure. A few food vendors at a festival we were working this year were unhappy that they were sent home for not having the required ballast after being told by the inspector the first time around.
Here in SC, you currently don't need a permit, but the inspector can require you to modify your setup. Example was we were required to have a minimum of 75Lbs at each corner of the FOH popup and wanted to see the drawings a certifications for the roof structure. A few food vendors at a festival we were working this year were unhappy that they were sent home for not having the required ballast after being told by the inspector the first time around.
Re: New outdoor stage laws?!?!
Steve the popup thing is one area that is not very consistent, the rule is suposed to be any structure over 2ft tall is affected by the regs, however for a simple lightweight pop up structural drawings aren't usually reqd but some sort of ballast or guy rope set up is reqd as well as an understanding that if it starts to move in a wind it gets taken down and it is never left unattended G
Steve the popup thing is one area that is not very consistent, the rule is suposed to be any structure over 2ft tall is affected by the regs, however for a simple lightweight pop up structural drawings aren't usually reqd but some sort of ballast or guy rope set up is reqd as well as an understanding that if it starts to move in a wind it gets taken down and it is never left unattended G
Re: New outdoor stage laws?!?!
Some regulation is not necessarily a bad thing. I am shure most of us have all seen some pretty dangerous set ups in our time. What usually happens is many things are unregulated until someone has an accident with a deployment that shouldn't have been. Then in response to that over regulation happens. Most of the stuff around Atlanta that I do requires an engineering certificate on the structure and a fire certificate on the top cover. Many places I am dealing with now do not allow "built" stages at all. Even with the mobile products like Stageline and such, we are required to submit an engineering certificate. I have not seen many inspectors on sight but then again we have to file our certificates with the folks obtaining the permit before we can have our bid considered for the job.
Some regulation is not necessarily a bad thing. I am shure most of us have all seen some pretty dangerous set ups in our time. What usually happens is many things are unregulated until someone has an accident with a deployment that shouldn't have been. Then in response to that over regulation happens. Most of the stuff around Atlanta that I do requires an engineering certificate on the structure and a fire certificate on the top cover. Many places I am dealing with now do not allow "built" stages at all. Even with the mobile products like Stageline and such, we are required to submit an engineering certificate. I have not seen many inspectors on sight but then again we have to file our certificates with the folks obtaining the permit before we can have our bid considered for the job.
Re: New outdoor stage laws?!?!
I have no problem with a law that deals with large structures w/thousands of pounds of gear like what fell at the state fair, but I don't think there is a public outcry for popups to require a permit and inspection. The "trigger" should be: Is anything significant hung/rigged from the structure.
I have no problem with a law that deals with large structures w/thousands of pounds of gear like what fell at the state fair, but I don't think there is a public outcry for popups to require a permit and inspection. The "trigger" should be: Is anything significant hung/rigged from the structure.
Re: New outdoor stage laws?!?!
I am all for safety but I few thoughts cross my mind. Who is going to do the inspection? Is the inspector qualified? Over regulation will kill a lot of smaller as well as larger events. They will not want to pay the inspection & permit fees or will want the production provider to include this in their price and of course they will not want an increase over last year's price. Of course that depends on the fee structure but looking at the proposed legislation it s not going to be cheap.
I am all for safety but I few thoughts cross my mind. Who is going to do the inspection? Is the inspector qualified? Over regulation will kill a lot of smaller as well as larger events. They will not want to pay the inspection & permit fees or will want the production provider to include this in their price and of course they will not want an increase over last year's price. Of course that depends on the fee structure but looking at the proposed legislation it s not going to be cheap.
Re: New outdoor stage laws?!?!
I have also been told they are thinking about similar legislation to include inside structures as well.
I have also been told they are thinking about similar legislation to include inside structures as well.
Re: New outdoor stage laws?!?!
"Stage Structures" in my area for all the small town street dances usually include a flatbed 18 wheeler trailer or a lowboy.... I can only imagine the hilarity that would ensue when small towns would try and get something like that approved.
I think its much needed, but I think they need to focus on the stuff in the air, as that seems to be a much larger area of questioning than the stage, although we have had our fair share of scary stages in my life...
"Stage Structures" in my area for all the small town street dances usually include a flatbed 18 wheeler trailer or a lowboy.... I can only imagine the hilarity that would ensue when small towns would try and get something like that approved.
I think its much needed, but I think they need to focus on the stuff in the air, as that seems to be a much larger area of questioning than the stage, although we have had our fair share of scary stages in my life...
Re: New outdoor stage laws?!?!
Adam some guard rails along the back of the flatbed and decent access steps and it'll pass no problem, there are more than a few truck companies here who have made suitable components and use them for fairs etc, just don't hang anything from it. Basically what happens is you submit your plans, method statement, risk assement etc before the event, any isues get sorted beforehand then you bring EXACTLY what you said you would and there is no problem other than the fee, if it is a city run event then the fee isnt an issue if it is then I'm afraid its al part of the cost of the event, sometimes charities etc can et the fee waived but the inspection WILL happen. G
Adam some guard rails along the back of the flatbed and decent access steps and it'll pass no problem, there are more than a few truck companies here who have made suitable components and use them for fairs etc, just don't hang anything from it. Basically what happens is you submit your plans, method statement, risk assement etc before the event, any isues get sorted beforehand then you bring EXACTLY what you said you would and there is no problem other than the fee, if it is a city run event then the fee isnt an issue if it is then I'm afraid its al part of the cost of the event, sometimes charities etc can et the fee waived but the inspection WILL happen. G
Re: New outdoor stage laws?!?!
While everyone is jumping up and down about what *might* happen, I will point out that unless you are working in Indiana, NONE OF THIS applies to YOU.
It is unlikely that most states will do anything until they see how the various lawsuits work out. In Indiana, state officials and the various departments and agencies of the State enjoy statute-limited liability and I predict more states will move to limit their exposure at events that have state charters.... long before they do a damn thing about public or worker safety.
I'll stop before I turn this into a rant about promoter reps, law enforcement and state officials that seem to ignore obvious weather situations.
While everyone is jumping up and down about what *might* happen, I will point out that unless you are working in Indiana, NONE OF THIS applies to YOU.
It is unlikely that most states will do anything until they see how the various lawsuits work out. In Indiana, state officials and the various departments and agencies of the State enjoy statute-limited liability and I predict more states will move to limit their exposure at events that have state charters.... long before they do a damn thing about public or worker safety.
I'll stop before I turn this into a rant about promoter reps, law enforcement and state officials that seem to ignore obvious weather situations.