Midas Pro 1
- Thread starter Luigi Chelli
- Start date
Re: Midas Pro 1
Jason, I had the Joy of playing with a Pro1 last night which is a good thing because I'm STILL waiting for mine to show up and I needed a Pro1 fix. I have a question for you about the Pro1.
Last night I tried to link the L/R and the Mono all together. I found out that the link button does not exist in the software or on the surface. Why is that? All other Pro series desks allow it and so does the offline editor. But on the Pro1 it's just not there. I was told the reason why is because it has a single mains fader and the L/R will permanently be linked on the Pro1 and linking the mono to the L/R is just not possible. I hope that that is not the case. I can think of several situations were I needed to "steer" the PA by lowering one side or the other by a few db. I also run my sub's on the mono out and need it to be linked to the L/R so they all track together.
Jason, I had the Joy of playing with a Pro1 last night which is a good thing because I'm STILL waiting for mine to show up and I needed a Pro1 fix. I have a question for you about the Pro1.
Last night I tried to link the L/R and the Mono all together. I found out that the link button does not exist in the software or on the surface. Why is that? All other Pro series desks allow it and so does the offline editor. But on the Pro1 it's just not there. I was told the reason why is because it has a single mains fader and the L/R will permanently be linked on the Pro1 and linking the mono to the L/R is just not possible. I hope that that is not the case. I can think of several situations were I needed to "steer" the PA by lowering one side or the other by a few db. I also run my sub's on the mono out and need it to be linked to the L/R so they all track together.
Re: Midas Pro 1
VCA's ?? Can you spare one? Fixes the sub mono out problem at least, and if you do matrix outs you can rebalance L and R at will
VCA's ?? Can you spare one? Fixes the sub mono out problem at least, and if you do matrix outs you can rebalance L and R at will
Re: Midas Pro 1
Yes, I thought about using Matrix outs to solve the problem. I feel it is a band-aid fix. I never understood why people use Matrix outs to drive the PA isn't that what the L/R buss is for? I think that the desk should work like it was designed and I shouldn't have to come up with some other solution to make it function like it should out of the box. Unless it was designed to not allow you to link and unlink the outputs at will. Really it's not a huge deal, I just want to know if this is a bug or something that Midas missed in the software.
Yes, I thought about using Matrix outs to solve the problem. I feel it is a band-aid fix. I never understood why people use Matrix outs to drive the PA isn't that what the L/R buss is for? I think that the desk should work like it was designed and I shouldn't have to come up with some other solution to make it function like it should out of the box. Unless it was designed to not allow you to link and unlink the outputs at will. Really it's not a huge deal, I just want to know if this is a bug or something that Midas missed in the software.
Re: Midas Pro 1
Here are some of the reasons I sometimes do it:
-It lets me equalize and compress the master bus after the 2track recording feed/other master feeds.
-Allows me to double up on parametric EQ bands on the masters.
-It allows me to use the master bus as a subgroup by not busing the regular groups to the LR, I only feed the groups to a matrix (as well as the LR to the same matrix). Voila - a "free" stereo group extra!
-It allows me to listen to the LR output during line check, allowing me to eliminate the possibility of a patch/bus/mute mistake causing trouble for the first song of the set. I just PFL the master and mute the matrix.
There probably are others, too. Like the saying goes: Don't knock it 'till you try it
Best regards,
Kristian Johnsen
Here are some of the reasons I sometimes do it:
-It lets me equalize and compress the master bus after the 2track recording feed/other master feeds.
-Allows me to double up on parametric EQ bands on the masters.
-It allows me to use the master bus as a subgroup by not busing the regular groups to the LR, I only feed the groups to a matrix (as well as the LR to the same matrix). Voila - a "free" stereo group extra!
-It allows me to listen to the LR output during line check, allowing me to eliminate the possibility of a patch/bus/mute mistake causing trouble for the first song of the set. I just PFL the master and mute the matrix.
There probably are others, too. Like the saying goes: Don't knock it 'till you try it
Best regards,
Kristian Johnsen
Re: Midas Pro 1
All good points Kristian now I understand why I don't do it:
I don't compress my main mix bus
If I need more than 6 bands of parametric eq for the main outs then I have bigger problems.
I don't use subgroups. Only VCA's
This one I don't understand because regardless of the muted or un-muted Matrix out's your still listening to the L/R bus though the Matrix depending on its mute state. Right?
I'm not trying to knock your method I'm just stating that I personally have no use for it.
Now if I'm forced to do it on the Pro1 so that I can "unlink" or "link" the L/R then maybe I need to think about a Pro2C instead. Because it can do it.
I just Checked the software and it appears that you can not link Matrix outs together other than the with the single matrix to it's left. So in other words you can not link three matrix outs to track together. So the problem is still not solved.
I'm sure it's just something they missed in the software build "I hope" because it is possible to link L/R/Mono together in generation 1 software but not generation 2 and all the other Pro series desk will allow a L/R/Mono link.
Here are some of the reasons I sometimes do it:
-It lets me equalize and compress the master bus after the 2track recording feed/other master feeds.
-Allows me to double up on parametric EQ bands on the masters.
-It allows me to use the master bus as a subgroup by not busing the regular groups to the LR, I only feed the groups to a matrix (as well as the LR to the same matrix). Voila - a "free" stereo group extra!
-It allows me to listen to the LR output during line check, allowing me to eliminate the possibility of a patch/bus/mute mistake causing trouble for the first song of the set. I just PFL the master and mute the matrix.
There probably are others, too. Like the saying goes: Don't knock it 'till you try it
Best regards,
Kristian Johnsen
All good points Kristian now I understand why I don't do it:
I don't compress my main mix bus
If I need more than 6 bands of parametric eq for the main outs then I have bigger problems.
I don't use subgroups. Only VCA's
This one I don't understand because regardless of the muted or un-muted Matrix out's your still listening to the L/R bus though the Matrix depending on its mute state. Right?
I'm not trying to knock your method I'm just stating that I personally have no use for it.
Now if I'm forced to do it on the Pro1 so that I can "unlink" or "link" the L/R then maybe I need to think about a Pro2C instead. Because it can do it.
I just Checked the software and it appears that you can not link Matrix outs together other than the with the single matrix to it's left. So in other words you can not link three matrix outs to track together. So the problem is still not solved.
I'm sure it's just something they missed in the software build "I hope" because it is possible to link L/R/Mono together in generation 1 software but not generation 2 and all the other Pro series desk will allow a L/R/Mono link.
Re: Midas Pro 1
Perhaps the best thing about digital mixers is that they allow us to work in so many different ways.
I don't work one regular gig as I run a local sound company catering to all sorts of clients. Sometimes a compressor on the main bus can be useful, sometimes not.
Help, somebody call the parametric EQ police
I'm not that big a fan of graphics. Being that I'm a Yamaha guy I have on occation run out of parametrics as they sometimes use up a band for LPF and HPF and only have 4 bands per bus on some mixers.
I like to use VCAs, too, but sometimes in a different way than I use groups. The main reason I like using groups is that I can EQ/compress/FX/gather groups of channels into "prepared" packages I in turn can mix with the group faders.
I really like to set up audio groups so that I have a dedicated FX unit for the channels in that group, so that if I lower that group, I also lower the FX for those channels by the same amount.
A lot of people don't realize that this isn't really possible with VCAs: Typically we set up our system so that the input channels feed a post-fade AUX which feeds the FX unit, which in turn is returned back to the mix via a stereo return channel. OK, now we assign both the instrument channels strips and the returns for the FX unit to the same VCA, thinking that we'll just remote control that whole group or "package" of channels.
Here's where it gets a little interesting: You raise the VCA master by 6 db, meaning you raise all the input channels in that VCA group by 6db, meaning you feed you FX unit with 6dB hotter signal (which is exactly as things should be so that the FX "tracks" the dry channel). But if the FX unit is in the same VCA group, the return channels from the FX unit ALSO get a 6dB increase, meaning that the FX just got 12 dB hotter while the rest of the channels in that group only saw a 6 dB increase.
Food for though for some perhaps. It was for me when I initially realized this, and made me start using audio groups a lot more actively again.
I just got back from a gig where I was on my PM1D. Tonight a fed the PA from a matrix that was fed from the LR master1. That same matrix was also fed by a single group that had a DJ and microphone for a host running though it.
When I muted the master I could still PFL it, meaning I could line check and mess around with some FX setting while listening to the LR bus in headphones, all while the break music and host microphones were on.
I also made my master EQ setting on the matrix so that they were in play for all sources. I ran the LR master to another matrix for recording the band. During the band's set, I ran into some "gak" that I wanted to clear up for the entire mix. I used the EQ on the LR bus as it allowed me to fix the issue without screwing with the sound for the DJ/host setup (that I was happy with). I also concluded that it was probably best for this EQ change to be present on the recording, so it made perfect sense to make the change on the LR bus.
Nothing fancy, but a real-world example of how this may work for this user, at least.
No worries. I just got into the discussion because you stated that you never got why some people set their mixers up like this, and I had some suggestions as to why they might.
I'm afraid I'm not very knowledgeable about the Midas Pro1.
I will agree that it is irritating to not have separate faders for the L and R side of the main master, or at least a balance control. This has bugged me about both analog and digital mixers alike.
Perhaps the best thing about digital mixers is that they allow us to work in so many different ways
.I don't work one regular gig as I run a local sound company catering to all sorts of clients. Sometimes a compressor on the main bus can be useful, sometimes not.
Help, somebody call the parametric EQ police
I'm not that big a fan of graphics. Being that I'm a Yamaha guy I have on occation run out of parametrics as they sometimes use up a band for LPF and HPF and only have 4 bands per bus on some mixers.
I like to use VCAs, too, but sometimes in a different way than I use groups. The main reason I like using groups is that I can EQ/compress/FX/gather groups of channels into "prepared" packages I in turn can mix with the group faders.
I really like to set up audio groups so that I have a dedicated FX unit for the channels in that group, so that if I lower that group, I also lower the FX for those channels by the same amount.
A lot of people don't realize that this isn't really possible with VCAs: Typically we set up our system so that the input channels feed a post-fade AUX which feeds the FX unit, which in turn is returned back to the mix via a stereo return channel. OK, now we assign both the instrument channels strips and the returns for the FX unit to the same VCA, thinking that we'll just remote control that whole group or "package" of channels.
Here's where it gets a little interesting: You raise the VCA master by 6 db, meaning you raise all the input channels in that VCA group by 6db, meaning you feed you FX unit with 6dB hotter signal (which is exactly as things should be so that the FX "tracks" the dry channel). But if the FX unit is in the same VCA group, the return channels from the FX unit ALSO get a 6dB increase, meaning that the FX just got 12 dB hotter while the rest of the channels in that group only saw a 6 dB increase.
Food for though for some perhaps. It was for me when I initially realized this, and made me start using audio groups a lot more actively again.
I just got back from a gig where I was on my PM1D. Tonight a fed the PA from a matrix that was fed from the LR master1. That same matrix was also fed by a single group that had a DJ and microphone for a host running though it.
When I muted the master I could still PFL it, meaning I could line check and mess around with some FX setting while listening to the LR bus in headphones, all while the break music and host microphones were on.
I also made my master EQ setting on the matrix so that they were in play for all sources. I ran the LR master to another matrix for recording the band. During the band's set, I ran into some "gak" that I wanted to clear up for the entire mix. I used the EQ on the LR bus as it allowed me to fix the issue without screwing with the sound for the DJ/host setup (that I was happy with). I also concluded that it was probably best for this EQ change to be present on the recording, so it made perfect sense to make the change on the LR bus.
Nothing fancy, but a real-world example of how this may work for this user, at least.
No worries. I just got into the discussion because you stated that you never got why some people set their mixers up like this, and I had some suggestions as to why they might.
I'm afraid I'm not very knowledgeable about the Midas Pro1.
I will agree that it is irritating to not have separate faders for the L and R side of the main master, or at least a balance control. This has bugged me about both analog and digital mixers alike.
Re: Midas Pro 1
Point Taken. Thank you for those examples.
Perhaps the best thing about digital mixers is that they allow us to work in so many different ways
I don't work one regular gig as I run a local sound company catering to all sorts of clients. Sometimes a compressor on the main bus can be useful, sometimes not.
Help, somebody call the parametric EQ police
I'm not that big a fan of graphics. Being that I'm a Yamaha guy I have on occation run out of parametrics as they sometimes use up a band for LPF and HPF and only have 4 bands per bus on some mixers.
I like to use VCAs, too, but sometimes in a different way than I use groups. The main reason I like using groups is that I can EQ/compress/FX/gather groups of channels into "prepared" packages I in turn can mix with the group faders.
I really like to set up audio groups so that I have a dedicated FX unit for the channels in that group, so that if I lower that group, I also lower the FX for those channels by the same amount.
A lot of people don't realize that this isn't really possible with VCAs: Typically we set up our system so that the input channels feed a post-fade AUX which feeds the FX unit, which in turn is returned back to the mix via a stereo return channel. OK, now we assign both the instrument channels strips and the returns for the FX unit to the same VCA, thinking that we'll just remote control that whole group or "package" of channels.
Here's where it gets a little interesting: You raise the VCA master by 6 db, meaning you raise all the input channels in that VCA group by 6db, meaning you feed you FX unit with 6dB hotter signal (which is exactly as things should be so that the FX "tracks" the dry channel). But if the FX unit is in the same VCA group, the return channels from the FX unit ALSO get a 6dB increase, meaning that the FX just got 12 dB hotter while the rest of the channels in that group only saw a 6 dB increase.
Food for though for some perhaps. It was for me when I initially realized this, and made me start using audio groups a lot more actively again.
I just got back from a gig where I was on my PM1D. Tonight a fed the PA from a matrix that was fed from the LR master1. That same matrix was also fed by a single group that had a DJ and microphone for a host running though it.
When I muted the master I could still PFL it, meaning I could line check and mess around with some FX setting while listening to the LR bus in headphones, all while the break music and host microphones were on.
I also made my master EQ setting on the matrix so that they were in play for all sources. I ran the LR master to another matrix for recording the band. During the band's set, I ran into some "gak" that I wanted to clear up for the entire mix. I used the EQ on the LR bus as it allowed me to fix the issue without screwing with the sound for the DJ/host setup (that I was happy with). I also concluded that it was probably best for this EQ change to be present on the recording, so it made perfect sense to make the change on the LR bus.
Nothing fancy, but a real-world example of how this may work for this user, at least.
No worries. I just got into the discussion because you stated that you never got why some people set their mixers up like this, and I had some suggestions as to why they might.
I'm afraid I'm not very knowledgeable about the Midas Pro1.
I will agree that it is irritating to not have separate faders for the L and R side of the main master, or at least a balance control. This has bugged me about both analog and digital mixers alike.
Point Taken. Thank you for those examples.
Re: Midas Pro 1
Don't put the FX return on the VCA. When the VCA takes down the input, it takes down the post fader send to the FX, there is no need to have the FX on the VCA. When you take out the VCA, the FX go away without you touching the return.
Mac
Don't put the FX return on the VCA. When the VCA takes down the input, it takes down the post fader send to the FX, there is no need to have the FX on the VCA. When you take out the VCA, the FX go away without you touching the return.
Mac
Re: Midas Pro 1
Yes, one'll get that 2:1 relationship if assigning FX returns to the same VCA as as the source channels.
One neat option when using an analog mixer with VCAs and FX units with two engines but one common return is to assign the FX returns direct to mix and let the sends be remote controlled via the source channels which in turn are controlled by the VCAs. That way one essentially gets to assign each of the FX engines to the group of inputs it belongs to.
Using FX units like this sucks with a group only mixer as one of the engines tends to end up somewhere you don't really want it.
Yes, one'll get that 2:1 relationship if assigning FX returns to the same VCA as as the source channels.
One neat option when using an analog mixer with VCAs and FX units with two engines but one common return is to assign the FX returns direct to mix and let the sends be remote controlled via the source channels which in turn are controlled by the VCAs. That way one essentially gets to assign each of the FX engines to the group of inputs it belongs to.
Using FX units like this sucks with a group only mixer as one of the engines tends to end up somewhere you don't really want it.
Re: Midas Pro 1
Dear Brian,
Apologies for the late reply, I've had a few days off.
You are right it is not currently possible to link the Mono output to the L&R outputs on the PRO1. There were various UI reasons for this, one of them you've mentioned in your post. I'm currently is discussions with our team to see what options we might have to add some flexibility. I completely understand all the reasoning in your post.
I'll report back as soon as I get a chance. But this will probably be after PLASA.
Thanks,
Jason
Dear Brian,
Apologies for the late reply, I've had a few days off.
You are right it is not currently possible to link the Mono output to the L&R outputs on the PRO1. There were various UI reasons for this, one of them you've mentioned in your post. I'm currently is discussions with our team to see what options we might have to add some flexibility. I completely understand all the reasoning in your post.
I'll report back as soon as I get a chance. But this will probably be after PLASA.
Thanks,
Jason
Re: Midas Pro 1
Just took delivery of my Pro 1 Tour Pack Thursday. I have done 2 shows with it. I feel that I should list my Pro's and Con's here so I'm compiling a list and will post it soon. For the most part all is good but I have a few major Con's that I feel need to be pointed out and addressed in the next software update. Stay tuned.
Just took delivery of my Pro 1 Tour Pack Thursday. I have done 2 shows with it. I feel that I should list my Pro's and Con's here so I'm compiling a list and will post it soon. For the most part all is good but I have a few major Con's that I feel need to be pointed out and addressed in the next software update. Stay tuned.
Re: Midas Pro 1
I've played with Gen II firmware - it's definitely better than Gen I. I have a demo Pro1 with Gen II sitting here right now, but nothing with Gen I for side by side.
I've played with Gen II firmware - it's definitely better than Gen I. I have a demo Pro1 with Gen II sitting here right now, but nothing with Gen I for side by side.
Re: Midas Pro 1
Currently I have a email into Jason Kelly to check out the Con's I had about the desk and I'm waiting for a reply to see if maybe he's knows of some work arounds. But in the mean time I can say that I think Midas needs to address the Sends on Fader notification's on the desk. Currently it gives you 3 places to see if your in Sends on Fader mode. 1 the led light on the aux button lights up. 2 the lcd select button/screen says mono aux. 3 the screen changes right above the fader and shows the aux number you using on Sends on Fader. I believe they should change this and make a header at the top of the screen that flashes "SENDS ON FADER AUX 1" because if your screen is in effects or preferences or some other function then you have lost the visual reference on the screen. When your in direct sunlight the aux led light is impossible to see. So the only visual reference you have left is the lcd select button/screen that says mono aux which is written out in super micro print. Or maybe they can flash the select button/screen's when sends on fader is engaged.
I was mixing a band with all IEM's from foh and I couldn't use the faders as a visual reference seeing the mixes looked almost identical to the foh mix. I almost killed the drummer at sound check with lead guitar in his mix because I thought I was in foh mix.
I can say the desk sounds completely amazing. You will not find another desk in this price point that sounds this good. The 780 reverb is the best I have ever used and all the dynamics processing is so transparent. The overall sound quality is simply amazing to say the least. If your shopping for a small format desk do not skip this one. Try it you will buy it.
Currently I have a email into Jason Kelly to check out the Con's I had about the desk and I'm waiting for a reply to see if maybe he's knows of some work arounds. But in the mean time I can say that I think Midas needs to address the Sends on Fader notification's on the desk. Currently it gives you 3 places to see if your in Sends on Fader mode. 1 the led light on the aux button lights up. 2 the lcd select button/screen says mono aux. 3 the screen changes right above the fader and shows the aux number you using on Sends on Fader. I believe they should change this and make a header at the top of the screen that flashes "SENDS ON FADER AUX 1" because if your screen is in effects or preferences or some other function then you have lost the visual reference on the screen. When your in direct sunlight the aux led light is impossible to see. So the only visual reference you have left is the lcd select button/screen that says mono aux which is written out in super micro print. Or maybe they can flash the select button/screen's when sends on fader is engaged.
I was mixing a band with all IEM's from foh and I couldn't use the faders as a visual reference seeing the mixes looked almost identical to the foh mix. I almost killed the drummer at sound check with lead guitar in his mix because I thought I was in foh mix.
I can say the desk sounds completely amazing. You will not find another desk in this price point that sounds this good. The 780 reverb is the best I have ever used and all the dynamics processing is so transparent. The overall sound quality is simply amazing to say the least. If your shopping for a small format desk do not skip this one. Try it you will buy it.
Re: Midas Pro 1
The website puts the desk itself at 21.5 KG. Is the flight case really that heavy, or is the surface a little heavier than 21.5 KG?
The website puts the desk itself at 21.5 KG. Is the flight case really that heavy, or is the surface a little heavier than 21.5 KG?