What sub should I get?

Lisa Lane-Collins

Sophomore
Dec 9, 2012
270
0
16
Adelaide, Australia
Brain picking time :-D

At the moment I'm running 2 Mackie Thump TH15A powered speakers as my front of house (being used for small rock gigs and outdoor things that don't need to be too loud). I'd like to compliment them with a sub and am posting here (instead of just buying a HD1801 and being done with it) because in time, I'd like to improve the quality/power of my rig. If there's a better sub I can get that will compliment the Thumps for now, I can buy better top boxes down the track....

There's not really any limit to my budget, however one other thing to consider is portability (that the Thumps are light is the reason I bought them). And I guess the other consideration is durability (the other reason I'm hesitant to persist with the low end Mackie gear).
 
Re: What sub should I get?

Lisa,

This is probably better-suited to the Junior Varsity forum.

I'm going to recommend JTR Speakers' Growlers. Just feed them properly, and you'll be pretty amazed at what comes out. Let us know your location and maybe someone is close-by who can let you have a listen to a set.
 
Re: What sub should I get?

This is probably better-suited to the Junior Varsity forum.

I wondered that but am not a Weekend Warrior, hobbyist, or 'person with a day job'. Hence posting in the section frequented by people doing this professionally (as I intend to and want to get gear that will suit that purpose).

Located in Adelaide, Australia. A very brief search suggests JTR might not be available here (I shall continue looking), Yorkville looks like a possibility though, and neither of you suggested sticking with Mackie which affirms my hunch that I should aim higher :-D

Cheers
 
Mixing anything with Mackie is a crapshoot at best. Better to sell them and put the money into one good sub, and add more as needed. Danley, JTR, Bassmaxx, etc come to mind. Maybe RCF 8006, great review here recently, or ELS118 from VTC.
 
Re: What sub should I get?

I wondered that but am not a Weekend Warrior, hobbyist, or 'person with a day job'. Hence posting in the section frequented by people doing this professionally (as I intend to and want to get gear that will suit that purpose).

Located in Adelaide, Australia. A very brief search suggests JTR might not be available here (I shall continue looking), Yorkville looks like a possibility though, and neither of you suggested sticking with Mackie which affirms my hunch that I should aim higher :-D

Cheers

Hi Lisa-

Welcome. You'll do well to note that we don't often eat our own young, but with this crowd you take your chances. /humor, etc.

Okay, really... welcome to SFN.

I'd be surprised if JTR is distributed in Australia, which is unfortunate as the Growler is a nice, reasonably compact sub.

What are your business aspirations? What do you see as the pathway to growth, and to what ultimate level? What are your competitors doing, what do they own and how do they use it? Are there potential clients in under-served groups, or prospects that are unhappy with current providers? Do you have any training and/or experience running a labor-intensive business? I ask because making sound isn't that hard; making good sound requires dedication and practice but is certainly achievable; making a business out of making good sound is another matter entirely. In the 30+ years I've been in this industry, I've seen a lot of start up companies fail spectacularly and witnessed more than a few long term companies suffer steady, terminal declines that put them out. If you have any mind for investing for real financial return, don't start a sound company. Seriously. You'll be disappointed.

If memory serves me, we have several forum participants from around Australia and New Zealand. Hopefully they can offer suggestions regarding equipment.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
 
Re: What sub should I get?

I wondered that but am not a Weekend Warrior, hobbyist, or 'person with a day job'. Hence posting in the section frequented by people doing this professionally (as I intend to and want to get gear that will suit that purpose).


Cheers
Since "that" is not what you are-yet are using the level of gear that fits into "that" category, EXACTLY what do you do?

What is your budget? What is the rest of your system? What type of gigs do you do? What size?

Having an idea of what YOUR needs are-would really help get good answers.
 
Re: What sub should I get?

Just to reiterate Tim's and Ivan's points, what are the potential applications and what are your goals? What do you consider a small rock gig and how large are the outdoor events? You referred to "a sub" and "a HD1801" so are you truly thinking a single subwoofer? Do you have any goals relating to size, weight, performance or budget? Do you have any preference on powered subs versus unpowered with amp? Do you have any system processing or could that also be part of a subwoofer purchase?
 
Re: What sub should I get?

QSC KW181 should be available in AU. You would need a hp filter on the output to your Mackies, or a better idea would be to sell them and buy a whole QSC system.
 
Re: What sub should I get?

Tim, hellooooo *waves*. Business aspirations are currently to be self sufficient.....I'm a live tech by trade, mostly working in venues which already have PA installed, occasionally landing gigs that require PA to be supplied, starting on the road to having all my own gear because hiring it from one of the established companies feels like dead money. The Thumps did the trick but in using them I've already reached a point where I'd like more volume/coverage (must be all those outdoor gigs). Being that there is no deadline, I envisage some sort of slow, steady acquisition of nice equipment, more for my own satisfaction than that of the clients (as from what I can tell, people are easily impressed - I've had nothing but good feedback using the Thumps, I put this down to good FOH EQing perhaps).

The business plan is to land myself a venue installation or two (I did have one lined up and that was what started me thinking about buying better equipment but it fell through.) Even without getting a gig like that, I want to improve my PA because I know I can drum up jobs through talking to people - the jobs invariably seem to require more power/headroom than I have though (and again, not wanting to hire, preferring to own, logical solution seems to be buy better gear). The other business plan is to cold canvas work off of cover bands but the Thumps would do for that ah ha (maybe that kind of stuff can fund my better gear).

In terms of competing with already established sound companies, my thoughts are that I can beat them in customer service, care-factor and live mixing skill (I can actually use a Graphic EQ unlike most of the techs in town) hands down. (I'd mostly be localised to the the original live music scene, when it comes to proper corporate AV I don't reckon I'm ready for that yet and possibly have no interest in it - not looking to make heaps of money, just generate work for myself really - would be cool if I could establish a name for myself as a boutique business :-D)

In terms of business running my experience is minimal, but then my overheads are low, and my aspirations are to keep things fairly low key for now. As for financial return, my main objective is to make a living out of sound tech (like, with nothing else, I'll just keep living off of my income from freelancing), having better gear is a means to that end, gives me the option to value-add (if I'm mixing in a venue that's hiring from someone else, it'd be an easy transition to have them hire from me instead)...there's also an element of my wanting to mix on something a bit more awesome (than all the small venue PAs I've been using) and feeling like the only way I'll ever get to is if I own it myself.

What else, I've been live teching for 5 years (during which time I've transformed from rank amateur who tells everyone she's the best to consummate professional who realises she still has more to learn), I did a superfluous uni course, and I've done a bit of box pushing, could probably benefit from a bit more box pushing but I'm no where near as good at that as I am at mixing and companies tend to not call me back, still, I have a bit of a feel for what they do.

For the venues I'm thinking of, the competitors supply vocal PAs in various shapes and sizes. If you go slightly larger capacity then you start seeing speaker stacks. I'm supposing supplying gear to nightclubs might be quite lucrative too. One reason why venue supply is stuck in my head, two actually, is because one of Adelaide's leading lights of PA hire has equipment in 50 different sites - I didn't even know we had 50 venues! Also, especially in the non commercial part of the scene, venues are opening and going bust all of the time, which means it'll be possible to land a gig in a new place without stepping on anyone's toes. Another thought is that we have this thing called the Adelaide Fringe every March and then you can't throw a stone without hitting a venue and they all need to get their PAs from somewhere.....Another reason why I want to own better gear is I'd like to get further up into a price range where someone wanting to use such gear could never justify the outlay themselves, and therefore will have no choice but to hire.

Johnathan, cheers, Excellent site :-D Every one loves JBL, why is that?

Ivan, I might be using bottom end gear at the moment, but I am doing sound professionally and intend to continue doing so for the rest of my life. Stands to reason if I posted in Junior varsity, I'd get good feedback about putting together a low end PA - nothing wrong with that, if I am successful and use it every week, will it last? Is there any point in buying a single Mackie Sub (yes, singular, for now, i can always buy more, I don't need to get everything at once, hell, I could go on landing gigs with just the Thumps, it's for myself as much as anyone that I want to upgrade) when I could make a start on acquiring a PA with more headroom, from the sub up as it is? If I'm going to do that, I'd like to know more about what's good, this seemed like the right place to post. Also, there is no budget (although a practical limitation at the moment of about $3000 - that's not to say that I can't wait and save more if there's a good reason to).

At the moment I'm doing little gigs - like people's back yards, and RSL halls, and outdoor gigs that can get away with not being too loud. If I keep landing these outdoor gigs I'd like to get a sound that is closer to outdoor festival volumes though, and I'd like to get some quality PA inside venues. Those are my current objectives. One day I'd like to be in possession of a sizeable speaker stack comprised of Martin Wavefronts or something similar :-D, then, freed of the cost of hire, I'd probably organise some goofy outdoor Rock festival just because I could that would never even break even cos no one likes Rock in my town, and I wouldn't care, cos I get to spend the whole time mixing on my mad system. (She dreams).

Mike, not a bad suggestion, I've been seeing QSC around a bit lately, in fact, it just so happened that I've used a QSC sub with the thumps in the past, sounded alright (I'd probs be inclined to hold onto the Thumps though cos I hoard, and one of the B plans is to open a rehearsal room in which case they'd be handy again).
 
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Re: What sub should I get?

Brain picking time :-D

At the moment I'm running 2 Mackie Thump TH15A powered speakers as my front of house (being used for small rock gigs and outdoor things that don't need to be too loud). I'd like to compliment them with a sub and am posting here (instead of just buying a HD1801 and being done with it) because in time, I'd like to improve the quality/power of my rig. If there's a better sub I can get that will compliment the Thumps for now, I can buy better top boxes down the track....

There's not really any limit to my budget, however one other thing to consider is portability (that the Thumps are light is the reason I bought them). And I guess the other consideration is durability (the other reason I'm hesitant to persist with the low end Mackie gear).

I would recommend a pair of JBL PRX618-XLF. These are well regarded single 18 powered bass cab's, that are reasonably sized and at 37kg won't break your back. I've used those TH15A speakers and these will be far, far better. I would not combine them, rather just get 2 XLF's and be done with it.
 
Re: What sub should I get?

Ooh, same price as the Mackie and there's one on ebay with free shipping. What top boxes would you recommend? .... I've been trawling for cool speakers second hand and there's nada, certainly nothing within a 700km radius.
 
Re: What sub should I get?

Ivan, I might be using bottom end gear at the moment, but I am doing sound professionally and intend to continue doing so for the rest of my life. Stands to reason if I posted in Junior varsity, I'd get good feedback about putting together a low end PA - nothing wrong with that, if I am successful and use it every week, will it last? Is there any point in buying a single Mackie Sub (yes, singular, for now, i can always buy more, I don't need to get everything at once, hell, I could go on landing gigs with just the Thumps, it's for myself as much as anyone that I want to upgrade) when I could make a start on acquiring a PA with more headroom, from the sub up as it is? If I'm going to do that, I'd like to know more about what's good, this seemed like the right place to post. Also, there is no budget (although a practical limitation at the moment of about $3000 - that's not to say that I can't wait and save more if there's a good reason to).

Low end is a relative thing, to the Varsity forum it's any rig costing less than AU$ 100,000 ;)~;-)~:wink:
The Junior Varsity forum is mainly frequented by people working with setups in the 10.000-50.000 bracket, not exactly low end compared to what you are actually asking.
What to get for AU$3000? If you could lay your hands on a used PRX512 + PRX518 setup, that would serve you well. If you need to go for more powerfull tops later, the PRX512 is an exellent stage monitor.

..... or you could get two PRX612 and a 618 XLF new from Soundcorp in Melbourne for just a tad over 3000
 
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Re: What sub should I get?

The business plan is to land myself a venue installation or two (I did have one lined up and that was what started me thinking about buying better equipment but it fell through.)
Regarding installations-here are some things to think about.

1: Do you have the proper skill (as in EXPERIENCE INSTALLING AND HANGING THINGS THAT IF THEY FALL CAN KILL PEOPLE? You REALLY need to consider this. Do you have the proper tools required to hang gear? Cutters/ crimps/ lifts etc.

2: Do you have the proper insurance (both for yourself and the venue-should you cause any damage during the install)?

3: Do you have any experience actually DESIGNING as system (as in coverage-projected SPL etc)-Not just how to hook it up and make noise.

4: Have you considered how you are going to handle warranty calls? I assume you will offer a warranty with the system.

5: Do you have the proper software for making system drawings/plans etc?

6: Do you have the proper low voltage license (if required) to do the install?

7: Do you have the proper business license to do business in the places you plan on installing?

8: I assume you already have a proper contract laid out-defining who is responsible for what-what the system expectations are (performance wise), payment terms and so forth.

You can get into quite a bit of trouble (and expense) if some of these are not followed.

People often think that OK great-I can just install some gear and get some money. HOWEVER the customer is usually expecting a lot more than that. And unless you have planned on that extra service (ie charged for it) then it can sometimes become quite a pain to deal with after the install is finished.

You may put some gear in and all is fine-but when you run into a situation that you have not "done your homework" it can backfire and cause you a lot of grief.
 
Re: What sub should I get?

This has been discussed many times but if this is to be your profession then it needs to be approached professionally and if it is to be your livelihood then it need to be approached as a business. I am not real clear from your comments if your goal is to make a living by being a tech with the sound provider aspect being more a hobby or if the goal is to be a profitable sound provider. That seems to be an important decision to make as the gear is a tool and if it is to be a business is thus something you would want invest in based on your business plan.

You mentioned a number of existing venues, events and competitors. You also seem to be assuming the opportunities that would be available. Have you done research into what is currently being used and offered for the venues and events you are considering as potential markets? Have you looked at the equipment currently being used, the related requirements and the associated potential income and expenses? Have you thought about how you would set yourself apart from the competition? Have you considered when you would need more than just yourself and what you'll do then?

If you are looking at this as a business you might also consider investing in areas other than gear. Things like technical training, business and legal guidance, insurance and licensing, marketing and so on, basically getting a good foundation in place upon which you can then grow.
 
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Re: What sub should I get?

I'm in Perth and I don't envy your situation. Whilst you can make money by having your own gear there are a lot of pitfalls. If you don't buy the stuff you really need and want, then you're buying gear over and over again. If this is in your business plan ok.. but you need to be aware of it. Ie, buy a cheap analogue then a second hand expensive one and finally a current touring acceptable console and same with speakers and such. Or, you do buy once but this probably means going into debt and then servicing that debt.

My .02 would be to try and get really cosy with a PA supplier. Maybe even be upfront with them, let them know your intentions. You may get work on their shows; you hire their gear for your shows; you build up your inventory with gear they may want to cross-hire... go slow.

Perhaps build around the racks and stacks. So get a mic kit and stage cabling system together; decent console, splitter ? Depends on the market.

PM if you'd like to strike up a conversation or have a chat.
 
Re: What sub should I get?

There's not really any limit to my budget, however one other thing to consider is portability (that the Thumps are light is the reason I bought them). And I guess the other consideration is durability (the other reason I'm hesitant to persist with the low end Mackie gear).

Seeing as you posted this originally in the varsity section and based on your stated intentions, I would suggest a *real* pro touring grade sub -you mention portability being a concern, but unless you are dealing with stairs, big subs that are ground stacked are actually easy to maneuver on casters by yourself. In fact, I sometimes find them easier to move than single 18" subs - the Yorkville LS801P that Evan mentioned in particular is quite awkward to move. A tour-grade sub won't be cheap, but will give you very strong performance and will be a high quality option to grow with.

I will refrain from suggesting specific products as I'm not sure what pricing looks like from various manufacturers in your part of the world.