What sub should I get?

Re: What sub should I get?

Heh, when you define the two sections by cost of gear involved, I barely even belong in Junior Varsity (should include 'local' in that jv description yes yes). Sorry about that and duly noted for next time.

Ivan, good questions, yes to some of them, have some kind of public liability (probably will need more if I get into this seriously), and a bit of experience (not with hanging stuff though, wouldn't dream of tackling that yet), don't know enough about acoustics, would like to learn more, if anyone can recommend any good reading ... :-) No business plan yet, could very well be time to make one (I have been running off of a different business plan this year - different 'product', it's only recently that I've started to feel I should put my energy back into Live - both mixing and supply).

Brad, to do both professionally would be ideal. This thread's making me think I need to do some proper planning though. Getting more training in the business side of things very good idea - I did cert II in business management but it was a pretty shallow overview. Getting trained formally in the tech side of things a good idea too but I spent 4 years (in the wrong place) learning 'tech', and get a repeatedly strong message from people working in AV that the piece of paper is worthless and feel it would be better to just do more work for already established companies.....having said that, not enough to think it, should actually go do it. In the mean time, I talked myself up to much and need a sub by Saturday :-D

Jeff, starting to get a feel for the difference between pro touring gear (last 3 days looking online, good learning curve), and smaller stuff, as goofy as it would be it would be cool to have one big sub haha (And then, yes I could get the rest of the rig to go on top of that later), but yeah, big and bulky and impractical def go on the list of cons.

Heh, what's it cost to get Danley downunder?

Currently the JBLs are looking like a logical upgrade. Guess I'm going to have to give this some more thought if I want it to turn around some kind of profit.
 
Re: What sub should I get?

Lisa Lane-Collins said:
Heh, when you define the two sections by cost of gear involved, I barely even belong in Junior Varsity (should include 'local' in that jv description yes yes). Sorry about that and duly noted for next time.

Ivan, good questions, yes to some of them, have some kind of public liability (probably will need more if I get into this seriously), and a bit of experience (not with hanging stuff though, wouldn't dream of tackling that yet), don't know enough about acoustics, would like to learn more, if anyone can recommend any good reading ... :-) No business plan yet, could very well be time to make one (I have been running off of a different business plan this year - different 'product', it's only recently that I've started to feel I should put my energy back into Live - both mixing and supply).

Brad, to do both professionally would be ideal. This thread's making me think I need to do some proper planning though. Getting more training in the business side of things very good idea - I did cert II in business management but it was a pretty shallow overview. Getting trained formally in the tech side of things a good idea too but I spent 4 years (in the wrong place) learning 'tech', and get a repeatedly strong message from people working in AV that the piece of paper is worthless and feel it would be better to just do more work for already established companies.....having said that, not enough to think it, should actually go do it. In the mean time, I talked myself up to much and need a sub by Saturday :-D

Jeff, starting to get a feel for the difference between pro touring gear (last 3 days looking online, good learning curve), and smaller stuff, as goofy as it would be it would be cool to have one big sub haha (And then, yes I could get the rest of the rig to go on top of that later), but yeah, big and bulky and impractical def go on the list of cons.

Heh, what's it cost to get Danley downunder?

Currently the JBLs are looking like a logical upgrade. Guess I'm going to have to give this some more thought if I want it to turn around some kind of profit.
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There you go, making sense... 8O~8-O~:shock:

We have a couple of sayings that developed since the late 1990's... "The wrong piece of gear at the 'right' price is still the wrong piece of gear" and "Buy once, cry once." They are related.

I'll add a bit of business wisdom: 1: There is no such thing as a 'lateral move;' any movement that is not "business-forward" is moving backwards. 2: Excess capacity is infinitely expensive. 3: The income you make as owner is NOT the same as wages for performing managerial or technical work; all of those represent value and the costs of that value should be reflected in your pricing. 4: take a class in cost accounting, it will be an eye-opener.

Not sure what is available in AU, but here in the US the Small Business Administration has SCORE, Service Corps of Retired Executives. SCORE offers on-line and in person training and consultation to small business owners and prospective owners, and most of it is free or very reasonably priced. Hopefully there is something like it down your way.

I'll close with something I've posted several times: I've been in this industry for around 35 years. I figured out how to make sound, reliably, about 30 years ago. I figured out how to make _good_ sound, reliably and safely, over the next 15 years (and I'm still learning). But making a profit and return on investment for my boss while making good sound is something that took much longer and remains a work in progress.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
 
Re: What sub should I get?

There you go, making sense...
icon_eek.gif
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Winning :-D

And well glad I found this forum!!!
 
Re: What sub should I get?

Lisa Lane-Collins said:
Getting trained formally in the tech side of things a good idea too but I spent 4 years (in the wrong place) learning 'tech', and get a repeatedly strong message from people working in AV that the piece of paper is worthless and feel it would be better to just do more work for already established companies.....having said that, not enough to think it, should actually go do it.
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It does not have to be formal education in that sense but I think most people will say they benefit from educational resources like SynAudCon, AES and InfoComm classes, from manufacturer and Smaart/SysTune/SIM training and so on. From reading some audio related books. And from resources like this forum.
 
Re: What sub should I get?

Lisa Lane-Collins said:
Heh, when you define the two sections by cost of gear involved, I barely even belong in Junior Varsity (should include 'local' in that jv description yes yes). Sorry about that and duly noted for next time.<snip>.
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No, I think this is just where you belong for now, and I'm sure you'll find that before long your setup has passed the 10.000 mark. I was just trying to illustrate to you that the JV crowd isn't a bunch of yahoos doing sound on a couple of $250 stick speakers and an old beat up 8ch mixer.

Currently the JBLs are looking like a logical upgrade. Guess I'm going to have to give this some more thought if I want it to turn around some kind of profit.
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JBL can be a very logical move for a couple of reasons, brand recognition being one of them. Hardly anybody turn their nose up at anything from JBL (except EONs and JRXs) so while it might not be the best you can get, JBL har wide acceptance with potential customers. I don't know what you are aiming for in terms of music style, and a quick glance at your myspace page didn't make me any wiser. The right rig for punk/grunge/metal might not be right for a singer/songwriter or a singer accompanied by a piano. If you have a look and listen to the d&b system installed in Paradise Church (they might even have a small E10 or Q10 speaker-on-stick-over-subs system they use for smaller thing in other places than the main hall) you will get an idea of where you might want to go if absolute sound quality is the aim, but we're talking probably around 10.000 per box once you factor in the amps.
 
Per Søvik said:
I was just trying to illustrate to you that the JV crowd isn't a bunch of yahoos doing sound on a couple of $250 stick speakers and an old beat up 8ch mixer.
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I think most of us fit that description when we started. I was excited to move from a "tuck and roll" upholstered KUSTOM head to a shiny new Peavey XR600B in the early 80's. Why, it even had XLR inputs! ;-)
 
Re: What sub should I get?

Per Søvik said:
The right rig for punk/grunge/metal might not be right for a singer/songwriter or a singer accompanied by a piano. If you have a look and listen to the d&b system installed in Paradise Church (they might even have a small E10 or Q10 speaker-on-stick-over-subs system they use for smaller thing in other places than the main hall) you will get an idea of where you might want to go if absolute sound quality is the aim, but we're talking probably around 10.000 per box once you factor in the amps.
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Here's an interesting thing, I always think of myself as doing Rock and Metal shows but the majority of gigs I've supplied for have turned out to be acoustic/not Rock. Still, I think my ambitions still take me in the direction of obtaining a solid Rock PA someday. Also, *cries* how do you know about Paradise?! Will they let me through the doors if I don't believe.... (They would have the top notch gear wouldn't they?! I saw their recording studio once, can you say State of the Art?)

It does not have to be formal education in that sense but I think most people will say they benefit from educational resources like SynAudCon, AES and InfoComm classes, from manufacturer and Smaart/SysTune/SIM training and so on. From reading some audio related books. And from resources like this forum.
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Ah, I can get into that. :-)
 
Re: What sub should I get?

Lisa Lane-Collins said:
if anyone can recommend any good reading ... :-)
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Hey Lisa,

Definitely read Bob McCarthy's Sound Systems: Design and Optimization. With a basic physics understanding and a background in audio, that book is pretty much a bible. It may take a little bit of re-reading and asking some questions over here, but it provides a look into the physics of sound, acoustics, and what it takes to design and integrate a loudspeaker system.

As far as owning gear goes- think about it a lot before you accumulate any debt with it. Don't invest more than you're sure you can get a return on in a short amount of time. I've considered owning my own gear- but outside of a decent mic collection, I don't own much more than some speakers on sticks, an 01v96, and cabling/support to make it go together. Generally working for clubs or regional production companies, I rarely use my own gear. When I need something more than I can provide for on my own, I reach out to those who can adequately support the client's needs.
 
Re: What sub should I get?

Ended getting JBL PRX for now.

Thanks for all the input :-)

That book sounds like just the ticket, cheers. (And no debt for Lisa, only spend what I have. If I can make my acquisitions make the money back all the better.)
 
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