Board decision for mid-sized church

Jeff Williams

Jeff Williams

Sophomore
Jan 18, 2011
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Tulsa, OK
bluebabysound.com
So a couple of weeks ago I made the leap to volunteer for the tech team at my church. The first thing I notice is a board that has issues and is not 100% functional. They currently have a Mackie TT24 that has flashing lights like a Christmas tree, 24 channels of ADAT with 12 not functional (I believe due to the clock settings), issues with the board wiping out settings, random noises, etc, etc..... That board is a nightmare!


Here are the basic wants/needs:

Sub 10k, no Presonus or Behringer
Digital
Minimum of 36 channels, the fewer layers the better
Minimum 10 mon/aux channels
Ability to mix via iPad is a huge plus.


I'm thinking LS9 32. Any others we should consider?
 
Re: Board decision for mid-sized church

Jeff Williams said:
So a couple of weeks ago I made the leap to volunteer for the tech team at my church. The first thing I notice is a board that has issues and is not 100% functional. They currently have a Mackie TT24 that has flashing lights like a Christmas tree, 24 channels of ADAT with 12 not functional (I believe due to the clock settings), issues with the board wiping out settings, random noises, etc, etc..... That board is a nightmare!


Here are the basic wants/needs:

Sub 10k, no Presonus or Behringer
Digital
Minimum of 36 channels, the fewer layers the better
Minimum 10 mon/aux channels
Ability to mix via iPad is a huge plus.


I'm thinking LS9 32. Any others we should consider?
Click to expand...
The options in that price point are:
Soundcraft Si Expression
Midas Pro1
Allen & Heath GLD
LS9

All have pros and cons. The GLD has a built-in digital snake and is VERY easy to use, though it has fewer faders than some other options. The Si Expression is a lot of board for the money, and has more faders, but UI is not as cool as GLD. Pro1 has no digital snake at the base price, is physically pretty large, and 16 faders, but sounds good, and has some interesting and cool features. LS9 is pretty dated these days, and doesn't compare well with other options. It's widely regarded as sounding the worst of the 4 choices mentioned.
 
Re: Board decision for mid-sized church

GLD, very easy to use assuming basic knowledge of mixing consoles in general. The only issues I had with teaching it to others was due to their lack of knowledge of DCA's, groups etc, because the previous analog console had very limited functionality.

The surface can be configured any way you want. Any fader on any layer can be anything you want it to be. I'm not sure if the other boards do it too but I like the "reverse sends on fader" function it has. Press "MIX" on an input and the output faders show you the level of that input in that mix. (Obviously it works in the normal way too if you "MIX" an output).

Presumably you're doing a full band and various speaking mics? Other than the monitor mixes do you need any outputs for overflow rooms, recordings etc? How many subgroups do you want?

Chris
 
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Re: Board decision for mid-sized church

TJ Cornish said:
The options in that price point are:
Soundcraft Si Expression
Midas Pro1
Allen & Heath GLD
LS9

All have pros and cons. The GLD has a built-in digital snake and is VERY easy to use, though it has fewer faders than some other options. The Si Expression is a lot of board for the money, and has more faders, but UI is not as cool as GLD. Pro1 has no digital snake at the base price, is physically pretty large, and 16 faders, but sounds good, and has some interesting and cool features. LS9 is pretty dated these days, and doesn't compare well with other options. It's widely regarded as sounding the worst of the 4 choices mentioned.
Click to expand...

I'm personally not so into the Expression or LS9. I think in your price range the best bet is probably the Pro 1. I have yet to use one, but that's based on what I've heard from others.

Jeff Knorr is selling a full GLD system in the marketplace.
 
Re: Board decision for mid-sized church

Chris Nixon said:
GLD, very easy to use assuming basic knowledge of mixing consoles in general. The only issues I had with teaching it to others was due to their lack of knowledge of DCA's, groups etc, because the previous analog console had very limited functionality.

The surface can be configured any way you want. Any fader on any layer can be anything you want it to be. I'm not sure if the other boards do it too but I like the "reverse sends on fader" function it has. Press "MIX" on an input and the output faders show you the level of that input in that mix. (Obviously it works in the normal way too if you "MIX" an output).

Presumably you're doing a full band and various speaking mics? Other than the monitor mixes do you need any outputs for overflow rooms, recordings etc? How many subgroups do you want?

Chris
Click to expand...

Full band
No overflow rooms (yet)
Basic sermon recording but no music recording
Not sure about the subgroups, they're not really using the groups they have now.
 
Jeff -

I own and love the Midas PRO consoles but wouldn't put them in a church with volunteer operators. Tricky patching as compared to other options, possibly overwhelmingly feature rich for a non-professional user, and several "gotchas" in the existing firmware. As I said, I love mixing on them but there is a learning curve.

The GLD or small iLives are very easy to use and good sounding options. And tiny.

Never used or even seen a small Soundcraft digital in the wild, no comment.

A second hand M7CL32 or 48 would be close to budget, easy to use, and has the fader-per-input advantage that some prefer. Still the best console out there for certain situations.


Jason

Disclaimer: we are dealers for Midas and A&H, and own a lot of Yamaha...
 
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Re: Board decision for mid-sized church

David Sturzenbecher said:
Any bets on how many posts its takes for someone to suggest an X32?
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FWIW, the X32 does meet all the above criteria with the exception of brand name. The only reason I wouldn't consider it is that the OP states a minimum of 36 channels, which would put the X32 at max capacity to start and this doesn't leave much room for growth. I also used to have the "friends dont left friends buy behringer". But having used the x32 now I have to add "unless it is an x32 system".

No I am not trying to convince the OP to get an x32 either. just stating that it does meet the stated criteria aside from personal opinions.

If it was me shopping with the stated budget the GLD would be high on my list. Good luck in your search! Let us know what you decide on.
 
Re: Board decision for mid-sized church

That GLD system will add up to over budget if you toss in the digital snake...

I'd sugguest the Roland 200i, with a s-1608 digital snake head. Excellent IPad app, and works with the M-48 personal mixers (best on the market). I can get anyone an excellent deal on it...

Jared Koopman said:
FWIW, the X32 does meet all the above criteria with the exception of brand name. The only reason I wouldn't consider it is that the OP states a minimum of 36 channels, which would put the X32 at max capacity to start and this doesn't leave much room for growth. I also used to have the "friends dont left friends buy behringer". But having used the x32 now I have to add "unless it is an x32 system".

No I am not trying to convince the OP to get an x32 either. just stating that it does meet the stated criteria aside from personal opinions.

If it was me shopping with the stated budget the GLD would be high on my list. Good luck in your search! Let us know what you decide on.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Board decision for mid-sized church

Declan Slater said:
That GLD system will add up to over budget if you toss in the digital snake...

I'd sugguest the Roland 200i, with a s-1608 digital snake head. Excellent IPad app, and works with the M-48 personal mixers (best on the market). I can get anyone an excellent deal on it...
Click to expand...

The GLD with stage boxes is less than 10K from a good dealer. The Roland M200 has fewer faders, a tiny screen onboard, no scribble strips, and - based on a brief look at the product page - a strange configuration of 24 inputs on the console plus what seems to be only one 16-channel stage box supported, and only 32 mixing channels total, which doesn't even meet the OP's requirements.

The GLD has up to 48 channels - which in practice is actually more than that, since effects returns don't tie up mix channels. It has an actually useful digital snake with up to 40 inputs on stage, and has what seems to be a very nice personal mixing system. The scribble strips and flexible configuration make it easy to mix even a fairly large show on its 20 faders without 15 rows of board tape to keep things together.

The M200i actually seems to be a lot closer to a Yamaha 01v96 than the GLD.

Is there some reason you seem to be actively campaigning against the GLD? This is not the first thread where you've been spreading mis-information.
 
Re: Board decision for mid-sized church

TJ Cornish said:
Is there some reason you seem to be actively campaigning against the GLD?
Click to expand...

TJ.....

I suspect that the following quote from DS might possibly have something to do with it:

" I can get anyone an excellent deal on it..."

Sort of reminds me of a frequent poster from our town who tends to (rabidly) favor big-ticket gear because he can make more selling it.
 
Re: Board decision for mid-sized church

Dick Rees said:
TJ.....

I suspect that the following quote from DS might possibly have something to do with it:

" I can get anyone an excellent deal on it..."

Sort of reminds me of a frequent poster from our town who tends to (rabidly) favor big-ticket gear because he can make more selling it.
Click to expand...

:)

In defense of better gear - at least it's better. Downplaying the good stuff and upselling the lower-end stuff - X32 or other - that's where I scratch my head a bit. I'm all for value, and if a cheaper product can do the job just as well (reliability and support and lack of IP theft included) as something more expensive - so much the better. I do get frustrated that when we have someone who actually bothers to give enough detail in their question as Mr. Williams did, people start suggesting their pet product that doesn't meet the requirements.

Message to all Soundforums.net responders: If someone bothers to write in their question "NO Behringer" - I don't care how much you like your X32 - it's not applicable.
 
Re: Board decision for mid-sized church

TJ Cornish said:
Message to all Soundforums.net responders: If someone bothers to write in their question "NO Behringer" - I don't care how much you like your X32 - it's not applicable.
Click to expand...
I would typically agree and still agree where it is obviously not a good fit, however I am a little less sure when it is someone representing a group or organization and I don't know them or the situation. Right now there is someone on another forum that has essentially admitted they are trying to get their church to purchase the gear they think would be cool to have and that thus seem to want to avoid considering whether that best serves the church overall.
 
Re: Board decision for mid-sized church

Brad Weber said:
I would typically agree and still agree where it is obviously not a good fit, however I am a little less sure when it is someone representing a group or organization and I don't know them or the situation. Right now there is someone on another forum that has essentially admitted they are trying to get their church to purchase the gear they think would be cool to have and that thus seem to want to avoid considering whether that best serves the church overall.
Click to expand...

I would typically agree with your typical agreement, however there are limits to the amount of psychoanalysis that is reasonable to perform on a poster; and if someone has had 6 fairly new Chevy trucks die on them in their life, it's not unreasonable to say "I'm not going to buy a Chevy truck this time", even if on paper the truck meets the needs, and even if the reviews of the new model are good.

JR talks about roadworthiness and reliablility as being chosen features - in other words, sometimes the repairability or lack thereof is chosen by the customer (consciously or unconsciously) when they buy the product. The "It doesn't say Behringer on it" feature is an equal reality, and just as important to some users.

The good news is pricing pressure Behringher has put on the market, and the response in products that contain the "It doesn't say Behringer on it" feature, such as the Soundcraft SI Expression. These would be better suggestions to someone specifically looking for the "No Behringer" feature.
 
Re: Board decision for mid-sized church

TJ Cornish said:
:)


Message to all Soundforums.net responders: If someone bothers to write in their question "NO Behringer" - I don't care how much you like your X32 - it's not applicable.
Click to expand...

If you are referring to my post I did say that I wasn't suggesting he go that route. I was merely pointing out that given the criteria listed, it does meet all of the criteria except personal preference. I really don't care what they end up purchasing. Thats all I was saying. :)

As you mentioned in the first post, the GLD would be my first choice in this budget category. The others are pretty lackluster imo.
 
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