Mounting DI's and WAP's in dog house

A

andrew gissing

Sophomore
Jan 11, 2011
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Perth Western Australia
www.stylusra.com.au
Hi,

I've taken delivery of a pro2c and the only analogue inputs on the console are XLR. I need to plug in an iPod/cd player/notebook etc depending on the event. I have got a few XLR -> RCA > 3.5mm cables which I can use however.. I thought i'd get myself a couple of radial DI's for this purpose.

I've got one active, one passive - the proAV2 and JPC.

I plan on having these permanently connected to the console and live in the dog house. I'll use a couple of RCA > 3.5mm cables or 1/4" to 3.5mm cables to connect to the iPod etc.

I'd like to mount the DI's inside the dog house so that they are secure but still accessible if I need to pull them out from time to time (change cables, use on stage instead, whatever).

Any ideas on how to make these secure yet easily accessible ? I was thinking of using wide velcro tape and having a strip on the dog house to secure it to.

Dog house is pretty deep - i've got a 2RU drawer under the console so plenty of room.

Second install is a WAP for ipad access. I was thinking of doing the same with velcro or something more permanent (will rarely need to change) or.. rackmounting one and putting it with the stage box. I've not used the iPad app yet so i'm not sure if i'd use it more near FOH or stage if that makes a difference - probably not in large ballrooms where most of my work is.

Ideas ?


Andrew
 
Re: Mounting DI's and WAP's in dog house

We use Asus DSL-N55U dual band routers, they're ADSL (but cheaper then the ethernet version), and you can plug in a USB data stick for internet access... Has pretty much covered every venue we've ever been at (small to medium sized), further than we needed, just mounted in the dogbox at the back of the console. The 5.8Ghz band helps if 2.4 is congested too (say for example the crowd all have smartphones in their pocket).

Plan is to velcro or screw it in, but it's quite snug in there so doesn't tend to move anyway. Velcro would probably work fine. Just put it somewhere the antennas can protude above everything
 
Re: Mounting DI's and WAP's in dog house

andrew gissing said:
I plan on having these permanently connected to the console and live in the dog house. I'll use a couple of RCA > 3.5mm cables or 1/4" to 3.5mm cables to connect to the iPod etc.

I'd like to mount the DI's inside the dog house so that they are secure but still accessible if I need to pull them out from time to time (change cables, use on stage instead, whatever).
Click to expand...

Why would you bother using a DI if it is going to be located in the doghouse? If the unbalanced run is OK to the DI in the doghouse, it's OK to the console input. Buy a 6' 3.5mm>RCA cable and cut the RCAs off and replace with XLRs.

Mac
 
Re: Mounting DI's and WAP's in dog house

Bennett Prescott said:
If I recall correctly, Radial makes a metal thing that you can bolt down designed to hold one of their standard sized DIs.
Click to expand...

You do recall correctly! They make both the J-Clamp and the Pro-Clamp, depending on which box you are attempting to clamp down.

Screen Shot 2013-05-06 at 11.33.15 AM.png

Industrial velcro is one of the most fantastic things ever produced, but in a dog-house, after a long day outdoors in the heat... the glue will soften and you run the risk of having stuff flopping around in the doghouse at load-out. Zip-Ties can be used creatively to secure things like DI boxes quite well though, and will hold fast for a long time.

Mac really has the answer though, if you're concern is only local playback (next to the console) I would skip the DI. If you need to save channels and merge the L/R to mono, I've seen these little guys from Rapco in a few different doghouses over the years. They have always got the job done for me.

Screen Shot 2013-05-06 at 11.43.27 AM.png
 
Re: Mounting DI's and WAP's in dog house

mackerr said:
Why would you bother using a DI if it is going to be located in the doghouse? If the unbalanced run is OK to the DI in the doghouse, it's OK to the console input. Buy a 6' 3.5mm>RCA cable and cut the RCAs off and replace with XLRs.

Mac
Click to expand...

A "super velcro" like 3M dual-lock has been fine for me in the past for things such as GPI/O interfaces and KVM/Extender boxes but I agree with Mac that the DIs are unnecessary for your stated need.
 
Re: Mounting DI's and WAP's in dog house

mackerr said:
Why would you bother using a DI if it is going to be located in the doghouse? If the unbalanced run is OK to the DI in the doghouse, it's OK to the console input. Buy a 6' 3.5mm>RCA cable and cut the RCAs off and replace with XLRs.
Click to expand...

The one case for having the DI locally at the desk would be if you have one of those shitty laptops with the a 3 prong Edison power supply that introduces switching or loop noise into the laptop's built in audio output. A better choice would be a decent USB audio interface, but a passive DI will fix those problems right up. I found with my 2008 Macbook Pro, the audio out does have a tiny bit of PSU "hash" that I've noticed. I use a pcDI on that when I don't have my MobilePre USB handy if I'm feeling anal about the headphone jack noise.
 
Re: Mounting DI's and WAP's in dog house

+1; I do some gigs where people hand me their jacks or RCA's or have noisy notebooks; I thought by having a few DI's it means I can accept RCA and jack; adaptors can get lost, a DI bit less so.

The radial slip cover looks nice but because it fixes the DI in place, I think i'll go with velcro. But i'll look at a better type of glue.

Thanks all,

andrew
 
Re: Mounting DI's and WAP's in dog house

mackerr said:
Why would you bother using a DI if it is going to be located in the doghouse? If the unbalanced run is OK to the DI in the doghouse, it's OK to the console input. Buy a 6' 3.5mm>RCA cable and cut the RCAs off and replace with XLRs.
Click to expand...

While this is definitely true, I have always used a Radial Pro AV2 for the following reasons:
  1. Accepts 1/8", 1/4", and RCA, one of those will always work.
  2. Ground lifts, Xformer isolates.
  3. Blocks DC so enabling phantom on those channels won't toast my iPod / iPad / iPhone / MacBook Pro.
  4. Moves the potential failure modes of cheap unbalanced 1/8" ended cable outside the doghouse for easier troubleshooting.
  5. Nobody tries to borrow it, and it has my name right on it. I connect to it using a 1/8" to 1/8" cable that is useless to most people.
  6. Can be used to beat opener's engineer to death. Try doing that with a Y cable.
 
Re: Mounting DI's and WAP's in dog house

andrew gissing said:
Hi,

I've taken delivery of a pro2c and the only analogue inputs on the console are XLR. I need to plug in an iPod/cd player/notebook etc depending on the event. I have got a few XLR -> RCA > 3.5mm cables which I can use however.. I thought i'd get myself a couple of radial DI's for this purpose.

I've got one active, one passive - the proAV2 and JPC.

I plan on having these permanently connected to the console and live in the dog house. I'll use a couple of RCA > 3.5mm cables or 1/4" to 3.5mm cables to connect to the iPod etc.

I'd like to mount the DI's inside the dog house so that they are secure but still accessible if I need to pull them out from time to time (change cables, use on stage instead, whatever).

Any ideas on how to make these secure yet easily accessible ? I was thinking of using wide velcro tape and having a strip on the dog house to secure it to.

Dog house is pretty deep - i've got a 2RU drawer under the console so plenty of room.

Second install is a WAP for ipad access. I was thinking of doing the same with velcro or something more permanent (will rarely need to change) or.. rackmounting one and putting it with the stage box. I've not used the iPad app yet so i'm not sure if i'd use it more near FOH or stage if that makes a difference - probably not in large ballrooms where most of my work is.

Ideas ?


Andrew
Click to expand...

Your ipad or CD player should be able to drive the input of the Pro 2 … mine can. Why not use just plug straight into the input.
Unless you have an earth loop or the output impedance of your CD is too high, there is no advantage.

 

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Re: Mounting DI's and WAP's in dog house

Peter Morris said:
Your ipad or CD player should be able to drive the input of the Pro 2 … mine can. Why not use just plug straight into the input.
Unless you have an earth loop or the output impedance of your CD is too high, there is no advantage.
Click to expand...

How are those wired? If they're wired with pin 1 to shield, you can put phantom power across the output of whatever you have plug into them unless pin 1 is tied to pin 3 (in which case you're shorting the phantom supply).
 
Re: Mounting DI's and WAP's in dog house

Greg Cameron said:
How are those wired? If they're wired with pin 1 to shield, you can put phantom power across the output of whatever you have plug into them unless pin 1 is tied to pin 3 (in which case you're shorting the phantom supply).
Click to expand...

The only issue with phantom power is damaging whatever you plug into to it. The phantom power is connected to the XLR pins 2 &3 via a couple of relatively high value resistors …around 6K8 ohms and can sustain an indefinite short on the XLR.

If you had an XLR output connector on your iPad, everyone would just plug straight into the input. Thats what we all do with our radio mics, we don't DI them. The phantom power in these situations can still be an issue if the output circuitry is not robust. .
 

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Re: Mounting DI's and WAP's in dog house

Bennett Prescott said:
While this is definitely true, I have always used a Radial Pro AV2 for the following reasons:
  1. Accepts 1/8", 1/4", and RCA, one of those will always work.
  2. Ground lifts, Xformer isolates.
  3. Blocks DC so enabling phantom on those channels won't toast my iPod / iPad / iPhone / MacBook Pro.
  4. Moves the potential failure modes of cheap unbalanced 1/8" ended cable outside the doghouse for easier troubleshooting.
  5. Nobody tries to borrow it, and it has my name right on it. I connect to it using a 1/8" to 1/8" cable that is useless to most people.
  6. Can be used to beat opener's engineer to death. Try doing that with a Y cable.
Click to expand...

Re bold type. Doesn't that move the potential failure modes of cheap unbalanced 1/8" ended cable back inside the doghouse? That crappy connection is reason enough not use my iPhone as a music source when I can use a laptop and a USB output device for much better audio quality.

I still think a DI in the doghouse is a waste of money.

Mac
 
Re: Mounting DI's and WAP's in dog house

Why can't someone make a 1/8 to stereo XLR that is wired correctly. Blocks phantom power...doesn't short the phantom power supply. Couple caps and twisted pairs for each channel starting at the 1/8" end if I remember Mr. Whitlock's email correctly.
 
Re: Mounting DI's and WAP's in dog house

Hello.

A good way to secure stuff that should go in and out is to use screws or rivets to fasten a couple of 20mm elastic fabric bands (like the ones they sell at sewing/curtain shops, or they sell them with plastic attachments that you can cut off at camping supplies stores) and put the item underneath.

They will hold the item snugly in place, especially if it has an "edge" or two somewhere, allows the item to be removed, doesn't scratch and provides some shock absorption!

If the item slides out too easily, now you have a use for those adhesive rubber "feet" that always seems to follow rack-mount gear when you buy it!

Forget velcro tape. Even the Norwegian sun makes the adhesive let go :(
 
Re: Mounting DI's and WAP's in dog house

mackerr said:
Re bold type. Doesn't that move the potential failure modes of cheap unbalanced 1/8" ended cable back inside the doghouse? That crappy connection is reason enough not use my iPhone as a music source when I can use a laptop and a USB output device for much better audio quality.

I still think a DI in the doghouse is a waste of money.
Click to expand...

In this case, I suppose you're right! I was thinking in terms of how I do it, which is to leave the DI on top of the doghouse and use some short little XLRs to connect it inside. Were I doing mission critical playback as you are I definitely wouldn't be using my phone to do it, or my laptop either. Since I'm just playing pre-show (or was, back when I did this stuff) this solution is fine. I will often do it off my laptop through the Smaart I/O that's connected to the desk anyway, in which case these issues are moot. If you think a $120 DI is a waste of money for playback, the Smaart I/O is much Stuupider!
 
Re: Mounting DI's and WAP's in dog house

Bennett Prescott said:
If you think a $120 DI is a waste of money for playback, the Smaart I/O is much Stuupider!
Click to expand...

The Smaart IO is only stupider if the only thing you do with it is playback. Even if you only use it for playback it will still have better sound quality than the DI being fed by the headphone out of the computer. At that point you have to make a value judgement as to whether the better quality is worth the extra expense. I use my Roland Octa-Capture for playback as well as Smaart. I can also use it for multiple outputs from my computer for use with QLab, which supports multiple outputs. When I am not using Smaart I have a $150 USB output device to maintain the better audio via USB.

I get wanting the convenience of having the interface always available in the doghouse of your own system. It is easy to build a cable that will plug in without a DI, it is also easy to turn off phantom on the channels you know you always have your iPod plugged into. Are there people building doghouses onto small consoles that only have a master phantom on/off? A couple of 5 cent resistors and caps inside the XLR will fix that if you are stuck with only 1 phantom on/off.

Mac
 
Re: Mounting DI's and WAP's in dog house

Velcro works quite well for this sort of thing. But instead of sticky velcro, just get strips of velcro and screw it to the doghouse. You then wrap the strips around the DI and it holds in place. No glue no mess, easy removal.
 
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